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29 July 2008

Comments

CA

Well, if you're looking for a white, male governor from a Red State with just as short a resume as Obama's ... Kaine is your man.

Cecily

Kaine would be a horrible choice. He is a lackluster governor and probably would not survive re-election. Former Gov. Mark Warner would be a much more energetic candidate, but he is running for John Warner's old senate seat. We need Warner in the senate and frankly its a more attractive job than veep.

Derrick from Philly

No, no, Slim Jim,

Kaine isn't going to add any sugar to your White House recipe. Come up the East Coast just a little further and take another look at Joe Biden. He's got foreign policy ideas. I say "ideas" 'cause foreign policy "experience" aint enough--look at what Evil Cheney's foreign policy experience did for Bush the Idiot.

Doug Cooper-Spencer

Rod, man, you know I've always been a bit suspicious of Obama. I don't know, I think he's been too deep in bed with church culture. Those people scare me. I hope the best comes of his campaign because, after all he is better than McCain. But, to be honest, I still get two types of shivers when I see Obama, shivers of joy and shivers (though slight) of alarm.

Carl CS

Derrick, I'm in total agreement with you. Biden would add gravitas to the ticket and is excellent on foreign policy. He is also quite tenacious, although somewhat gaffe-prone. .

Rod, what say you on Biden?

Brad

Kaine's gubernatorial campaign was as anti-gay as any Republican. He would be a horrible choice and his selection would continue to send the strong signal that Obama and the so-called Democrats don't care about Democratic values.

So much for all the progressives and Obama cheerleaders who said he would be and antidote to the DLC. So far, he's been toeing the DLC platform hook, line and sinker.

Rod Mc

DERRICK AND CARL Biden would be a strong pick. No complaints here.

Roberto S

Obama's veep selection process is becoming even more tortured than the primary. He's boxed himself into an image and is quite clearly lacking in certain areas. As bad as the choice may seem, imho it's more than likely Obama will go with a Kaine or Sam Nunn.

col

Forget the anti-gay credentials, why does he look like such a goof?

Ryan

Kaine?!

Well, Obama sure IS nailing his own coffin shut with this one...

and i do agree with one of the above posters..obama getting waay too deep under the covers with church culture. that's all fine and good if that's who you REALLY are..

but, wasn't obama the candidate who, at one point, wasn't stressing his christian faith in the race? now all of a sudden, he's christian everything?

like i said, if you are a devout christian and are for the moving forward of policies that benefit christians yet serve the greater good of ALL,fine.

But, when you get in bed with religious zealots who make it CLEAR they are not for the progressive rethinkings and reimaginings of various policies, hate crimes, gay marriage initiatives, more jobs, etc. just who ARE you and what is your message?

Better yet, why would those of us who are for being progressive and truly liberal, going to cast our votes..FOR YOU?

Me

Yep ... church culture has been the issue for me with him from jump street. None of what he does is surprising to me. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid people ... you all will be sorry. Then again if it's him or the crypt keeper, well ... he's the best choice.

atl kid

Roberto, Sam Nun would be an even more unacceptable choice. He is the architect of Don't Ask, Don't Tell, vehemently anti-gay and 70 years old. If you're going to field a 70 year candidate as Obama's veep, then let's stop trashing McCain's age and many of his positions.

jb

I'm not really surprised by anything Obama does anymore. It seems as if he just wants to win at whatever cost. I think the main problem is his advisors around him who are telling him that he needs a more conservative democrat to win the white house. But that logic flies in the face of his primary campaign of "change". But its hard to criticize Obama with many people, because he can do no wrong in their eyes. Just don't be surprised if things stay the same if he is elected.

Mad Professsah

I was unaware of Kaine's anti-gay bona fides although I was aware that he is anti-choice.

I was willing to hold my nose for an Obama-Kaine ticket since Kaine is Harvard Law educated, spanish-speaking governor who is 50 years old.

I may still do so IF Kaine starts making noises PRETTY DAMNED QUICK about his position on equal rights for LGBT people and denouncing his own past gay-baiting ways.

BTW, in Virginia NO Governors are re-elected--they have a 1-term term limit.

I do like the idea of picking MARK WARNER from Virginia and then have Kaine appoint himself to that Senate seat :) [But I'm not sure Warner CAN run for VP and U Senate simultaneously and he has previously denied that he would want to]

atl kid

Mad Professah, you are twisting yourself into a pretzel as you write. Your blog has denounced McCain and the Repubs over marriage and Prop 8 and now you think the Dems should nominate an anti-gay, pro-marriage amendment governor? You're not drinking Kool Aid, you're mainlining it.

Rod Mc

MAD Sounds to me like a rationalization. Why don't you post your support of Kaine as a good VP possibility on your blog so you can be on record? I went on record two years ago and said he was unacceptable.

You seem to know a lot about Tim Kaine and Virginia politics but are "unaware" of Kaine's positions on gay rights. Kaine is supposed to denounce and reject his own legislative and policy record--a month before a convention--and we're supposed to believe it's sincere? What about the marriage amendment, should he just say he's sorry and 'maybe' it'll be repealed one day? Should Obama should have an pro-marriage amendment VP while you and other Californians are fighting Proposition 8? Sounds like an endorsement to me.

Carlos

Joe Biden is a boring, inside-the-Beltway, boring politician who was humiliated by accusations of plagiarism and has more recently prone to gaffes attributed to a big mouth. Biden doesn't inspire Independents, Southerners, or MidWesterners, groups Obama is trying to attract. WHile I disagree with Kaine on gay issues, I think Kaine would be a good political choice from a merely strategic standpoint. Obama is leading in most VA polls, and if he wins that relatively large state, he would have greatly enhanced his chances of prevailing in November. VA is absolutely pivotal to victory in November, and with that in mind, Kaine definitely is a politically shrewd choice.

Rod Mc

CARLOS This is not about Biden, it's about Kaine, who is also 'boring', a run of the mill Dixiecrat, hardly 'inspiring', and, has 'humiliated' many gay men and lesbians with his language and policies.

What is 'inspiring' or 'shrewd' about choosing an anti-gay, anti-choice, pro-death penalty, anti-affirmative action, pro-marriage amendment, pro-Iraq War governor? Might as well choose Mitt Romney.

Travis

Are you reading this, Ryan? So now the gay Obamabots say Kaine's anti-gay history and gay-baiting record "doesn't matter" and choosing him would be a "strategic move."

If Obama has NO record on LGBT issues--besides a few mentions in campaign speeches and sending the missus to speak to the queers--and Kaine has a HORRIBLE record, where does that leave the gay community? What signal does that send? Oh, and it would be typical Obama to choose an pro-life veep. He wants to have everything both ways.

Some of you will say anything to defend or promote Obama at all costs, regardless of how many times he or his supporters contradicts theirselves.

Carlos

"Whath is 'inspiring' or 'shrewd' about choosing an anti-gay, anti-choice, pro-death penalty, anti-affirmative action, pro-marriage amendment, pro-Iraq War governor? "

What is shrewd about it is that it is politically advantageous, most likely to garner more votes for Obama because Tim Kaine probably has more appeal to pivotal and numerous Independents, Southerners, Midwesterners, perhaps even Rocky Mountain (Colorado, New Mexico, Montana) voters. He is an outsider, a moderate, and a Southern governor, which most political experts considers a huge asset to a Democratic nominee. Kaine's support for gun rights is thought to be especially an asset in purplish red states such as VA, NC, CO, and Montana. Shrewdness has very little to do with the merits of Kaine's positions, but is about what maximizes political support, particularly in crucial swing states such as VA, MT, NC, CO, and New Mexico. The consensus amongst most political experts is that choosing Kaine would indeed be a politically savvy move for Obama.

Paul G

"Shrewdness has very little to do with the merits of Kaine's positions, but is about what maximizes political support."

What a load of bulls---. In other words, saying or doing anything to win, and changing positions to "maximize" votes. Hardly the rationale for such a "transformative" or "inspirational candidate. It sounds like the same old Washington politics and rather hypoctitical. And now you're quoting a "consensus amongst political experts." LOL. So as gay men we're supposed to let the majority decide on our rights?

If Obama is so spectacular he should be able to find someone who shares his ideals. You're brand new to presidential politics if you believe voters will swing to a candidate based solely on the veep. Please go back to MySpace or MyBarackObama with those focus group talking points.

Ryan

Travis: honey, are you stupid?

re-read my post and also go BACK in the archives and do a search for my name...

if you actually READ (and, this is suspect given your post), you'd know that i've always taken obama to task for his flip flopping with progressives, liberals and the like...

i have always been critical of him and his campaign...stop attempting to loop me in with the fools that ARE drinking obama kool-aid.

i'm a progressive and will always support the candidate who has a progressive mindset..obama doesnt. and never has...with his need for the faith based initiatives, his willingness to get in bed with republicans, his pointless trip overseas--while STILL not addressing the subprime mortgage crisis, the recession, etc.

but, if you can prove i even support Kaine, then put it up...what? oh yeah, that's right--I DON'T.

And, that isnt even in my post? so why dont you take your goofy, just posted to this today behind somewhere else?

I'm sure Daily Voice will gladly welcome you with open arms.

Thome

Paul, you're wasting your time. Anytime someone says the "merits of positions" don't matter, only maximizing votes", they truly are pathetic because they stand for nothing.

The Obama campaign has attracted more political neophytes and jellyfish than even George Bush did in 2000. They have no allegiance to any ideas, no care for causes, no interest in anything besides Obama. Some of these people will defend, rationalize or argue any ridiculous position and are the epitome of hypocrites. It is BREATHTAKING that people will defend a VP who has actively worked to deny them of their rights.

We're supposed to run against McCain and Bush, not try to be Republican lite. Or at least that's what Obama and his cheerleaders said during the primaries.

Greg G

I didn't support Obama during the primaries but am supporting him now. I will give Obama time to make his choice known, but, will agree with what has been said here. Obama can do better than an Kaine or Nunn. And yes, it is very disturbing that his campaign is so faith-based and panders to churches, and, seems quite willing to jump in bed with Republicans and jettison Democratic principles in the name of winning.

It's also very curious that some people are willing to defend a potential vice presidential nominee whose positions have clearly been at odd with our community. If Kaine's positions on gay rights, death penalty, Iraq or marriage amendments are acceptable, then McCain's positions are acceptable. There is no difference.

Carlos

"So as gay men we're supposed to let the majority decide on our rights?"

You do realize that bisexual and gay men are a very politically diverse group of people who vote based upon a whole host of issues, not solely on gay rights? There is no official orthodox way to vote as a bisexual or gay man.

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