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07 November 2008

Comments

Chaz

I really thought the white and Black gays could work together, but after reading this, I am not so sure. Black gays are in this alone, this struggle, it is ours alone. This should open up the eyes of Black gays who are so catty toward one another, we REALLY need to stick together. Our mothers and fathers are against us (the majority,) our communities, and now our gay sisters and brothers. It is unbelievable, shocking.

I live for your blog Rod. It really pulls the blinds off of the issues that affect the Black gay community.

freeleo

Well, no one needs to ever ask me again why I have no white friends. They will always be white first.

duane

This makes me want to PUKE. Hate is what is causing this problem, and directing it at someone else is NOT the answer. I am so ashamed that people would be that way.

Bill

Thank you Rod for this inportant information. I also thank TheRevKev for his beautiful insights. I am disheartened, but not surprised. I don't think any POC that have been to a white gay bar, or certain events, in this country is surprised. Not every white gay man or woman is racist, but life experiences for a POC includes little or large moments of this. From additional carding for bar entrance, to the "how did you get in here" looks, to POC are exotic creatures to have sex with in the dark, yet ignore in the daylight.

I am sad that white gays cannot answer the question of "Why should I support you when you have consistantly compartmentalized/ marginalized/ ignored me?" Blacks have, both gay and straight, supported this proposition. We were standing next to them in the rallies and in the trenches and on psa announcements. So how does the conversation turn from "We are all in this together", to "YOU people hate us".

"When white gay men don't get what they want they resort to type." I was hoping that was a stereotype, but like all stereotypes there is somtimes a grain of truth in it. That of "How dare you not allow me to have what I want. Who are YOU to do that?" Again, not all white gay folks are like that, but this turn of events allows everyone the opoortunity to see the world as it is, and hopefully to work together to get it how we want. POC need to unite and define us for us. There are a few, like Rod, who have been able to gain entrance into white gay mainstream media so that our voice can be heard. His credentials are better than quite a number of the writers on staff at these white gay publications, which for me says the old "You still gota be better than, in order to be recognized", is alive.

I say that to say, that it is important to have our voice on as many of these media outlets as possible. Yet, of course the thing is whether or not some of these publications allow us to speak our truth. Some want POC there to be able to say they are inclusive, in turns of organizational structure. There are far fewer that actually want their product to be inclusive. Let's keep moving forward. Obama is in and whoever wants to come with us can, and those who don't will be left behind.

Mark

We cannot do this to ourselves! I'm white and I do not, and will never blame blacks for this. Please don't think that the majority of my white brethren feel the black community is complicit. My partner is Latino. He is very disturbed by those who are saying that Prop 8 passed because of the Latino community. If you were to look at the numbers and forget color, you will find that people who strongly self-identify as "persons of faith" are responsible for prop 8's passage. Many in the black and Latino community strongly embrace faith, and that is what drove their vote, nothing more. I am at a rally in Long Beach, CA tonight. I will personally kick ass if I see or hear racial BS. We will never win this one if we don't fight as ONE community. Okay, I'll step off my soapbox now.

Mark

D.

That's the White privilege that Devah Pager from Princeton spoke about.

but then again, Black people aren't necessarily without fault too....

im kinda torn between being black and GLBT (bi) as well...

Taylor

I agree with Kevin. Why are black people being singled out? There are not enought voting Black residents in California to make up 51% of the voters that voted for Prop 8. What about all the other people that voted for it? Regardless hate and violence doesn't get people anywhere!

blkbandit

does that mean there wont be any more black men on randyblue.com?

jb

Well I'd like to see these same people scream talk like that down in South LA (Crenshaw, Inglewood, Baldwin Hills..etc) I wonder what the outcome would be? It amazes me that blacks are singled out when we are only 6% of the population of California. Like Rod said go to the O.C. or Fresno and scream at all the whites who also rejected the measure as well. I will say as blacks we do need to work on the homophobia in our community, but AMERICA is a homophobic nation in general. Plus being gay in California is not without legal protections already in place. There are much worse places to be gay in, go and ask all the GLBT folk in WEHO who moved to LA to escape their hometowns.

Kevjack

I do not get this talk about "We have every right to be outraged that this same group who *should* understand our struggle is allowing the kind of abuse and dehumanization gays face in the US today."

Why should "we" understand? These are not the same types of issues. This is what white gay leaders do not understand-- their message does not connect. We're not talking about schools, public accommodations, voting, employment or housing discrimination. We're talking about something very different--and in the minds of many people very personal. Yet gay leadership simply cannot formulate a positive, winning message on the marriage issue. That is why these issues go down at the polls every time. Blaming blacks and citing their "black homophobia" (since when did homophobia get a color?) will not help. In fact, it will only hurt because it will embolden bigots on both sides of the issue.

The fact of the matter is that the majority of voters do not see marriage as a civil rights issue. They see it as a moral issue, so all of the talk od discrimination just doesn't mean anything. It's like talking about schools and telling someone to vote for better roads. That is why these issues have worked in 30 out of 30 states-- people do not see marriage as some civil right. We need to think about that and come up with a more effective strategy.

Let's be very clear, blacks cannot be blamed for the passage in CA or any of the 29 other states. This issue is political cancer. The gay leaders who thought in 2004 that marriage was coming "whether you liked it or not" have been slapped in the face 30 times over-- they had no outreach, no message, and no plan of attack. They assumed that the public would roll over and let it happen. Everybody thought that CA would never do it because it's not Ohio or Alabama or some "flyover" state. Guess what? CA is closer to Mississippi than you thought.

It is time for a new strategy.

Faith

I'm forming the Black Revolutionary Committee, a org devoted to combating racism in the mainstream LGBT community and homophobia in the Black community. I've signed up folks already including a Black Lesbian couple that had trouble volunteering on the No on 8 campaign just because they were Black. The 3 of us went and spoke to Lorri Jean on Weds and she was like we have a lot of educating to do in our community and seemed open to a dialogue. Since this is spinning wildly out of control and is going to hurt the BlaQue movement for years I think we need to do something, like march, like protest. Could you come to a protest on Saturday at 5pm, Sunset Junction?

blkbandit

well said kevjack and jb.

i think discrimination is bad which is why i didnt support prop 8, but the last thing on my single mind is marriage. only time i think positively about marriage is when i see my married relatives and friends living very well. alot of females, and queens, always want to get hitch so someone can take care of them. shoot alot of straights lay in the cut for some rich women, or rich queen, to hold them down. marriage is an easy way to get ahead in life without the hard work. yes i am cynical about the institution of marriage but stop selling it as a civil rights issue. and if gays want to make sure their partners are protected get a lawyer involved. im sure there is a law out there for it.

Aaron

Just as quickly as a few white people will revert to calling us the "n" word, we are just as quick to dismiss "whitey" and assign any number of negative stereotypes. It's sad all the way around. We want respect and inclusion of our issues as gay black men? We have to stand up and demand it, beginning in our own communities. But in order to do that we have to come out...

DamonCM

Why aren't we gay people of color protesting in the streets...for being ignored, treated with complete apathy and being singled out for this mess? Why aren't we in the streets with our signs and stopping West Hollywood/ Key West/ Montrose/ Boystown/ Chelsea traffic in anger because of the way we're presently being treated?

People! WE need to get into the streets!

DamonCM

The reason they think we are to blame is because they can't even conjure up the existence of the black homosexual!

Jason

A story with the emotional power of unprovoked attack and racial abuse is going to provoke emotional responses. But to provide some perspective...

MOST of the "blame game" I've seen regarding Prop 8 has been against the Mormons. Even that is unfair (even though you choose to be Mormon), because it is the Mormon Church (i.e. the power structure) that is to blame, along with the specific people who voted for, campaigned for, and raised money for Prop 8. Note I limit it to those only, because there are plenty of examples of Mormons who were *against* Prop 8.

I know it's easy to say "a majority is the same thing as everyone" but that's the kind of mentality that made black bystanders verbally abused for no other reason than they were black.

Another commenter above points to the reason that the 70% yes vote from black californians caught a lot of people off guard. We *expect* old people, Republicans, religious nuts, etc to vote yes. Whether it's fair or not, they are already considered "the enemy". When African Americans, who have endured legal marriage problems of their own in their history, are painfully aware of discrimination and rights limitation written into the law, and are predominantly on the same side on the Obama/McCain vote, vote to do the same to another group, it hurts. I'm not talking numbers - I'm talking *any* number would be bizarre. To have a *strong majority* vote yes is painful. It makes you want to understand WHY.

Now for gay African Americans this may or may not be a surprise. Due to my personal history, the issue of African American homophobia is not new to me. But it should make people question what wasn't done with outreach, how the messaging has to be made in the future, etc because I don't think it is only a matter of homophobia. Only those familiar with the community would know the answers to those questions.

And yes, we all know of white racism in our community. And it is not unlike racists to exploit data to fit their agendas.

Rowan

blkbandit

I think they want marriage for something quite important as being on the same health plan, being able to visit your partner in hospital and being able to support a child that you may have adpoted/surrogated....

It's about legal rights to do the above...

I'm not being funny but I think a lot of people had YOUR attitude who are gay which is why this never passed-it's all about 'me'..

Rowan

blkbandit

I think they want marriage for something quite important as being on the same health plan, being able to visit your partner in hospital and being able to support a child that you may have adpoted/surrogated....

It's about legal rights to do the above...

I'm not being funny but I think a lot of people had YOUR attitude who are gay which is why this never passed-it's all about 'me'..

Rowan

Hmmm, well lets hope the ethnic minority gays can use this horrible situation to get ORGANIZED. Start legimate companies that are ltd not partnerships that outreach, educate young people etc etc...

Because it's bad but I think a lot of white gays would pay a lot more interest to the ethnic minority in their gay community like someone said above if we stood up for ourselves, stop fawning over them, get organized in a strategic way etc..

ff

email from NoOn8 organization (noonprop8.com) follows. good to see they took a small step forward to help people understand you'll do better working with the people who are against you instead of fighting them. calling people names solves nothing and shows just how low and callous some people can be.

--

This has been an incredibly difficult week for Californians who are disappointed in the passage of Proposition 8, which takes away the right to marry for same-sex couples in our state. We feel a profound sense of disappointment in this defeat, but know that in order to move forward we must continue to stand together as one community in order to secure full equality in California.

In working to defeat Prop 8, a profound coalition banded together to fight for equality. Faith leaders, labor, teachers, civil rights leaders and communities of color, Republicans, Democrats, and Independents, public officials, local school boards and city councils, parents, corporate law firms and bar associations, businesses, and people from all walks of life joined together to stand up against discrimination. We must build on this coalition in order to achieve equal rights for all Californians.

We achieve nothing if we isolate the people who did not stand with us in this fight. We only further divide our state if we attempt to blame people of faith, African American voters, rural communities and others for this loss. We know people of all faiths, races and backgrounds stand with us in our fight to end discrimination, and will continue to do so. Now more than ever it is critical that we work together and respect our differences that make us a diverse and unique society. Only with that understanding will we achieve justice and equality for all


Geoff Kors, Executive Director, Equality California
Kate Kendell, Executive Director, National Center for Lesbian Rights
Lorri Jean, CEO, Los Angeles Gay and Lesbian Center
Delores Jacobs, CEO, San Diego Gay and Lesbian Center

Anti-believer

THEY SINGLED OUT BLACKS BECAUSE OF THE MEDIA SAID BLACKS WOULD BE AGANIST IT.

Plus, the news media did a story on black pastors protesting it in LA.

Of course their aren't enough blacks in CA to defeat the bill.

Gay White Weho hate us blacks but LOVE our big black "cocks"!

I have to say it again...

WHITE MEN LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE our BIG black cocks!!!

Former COGIC

Not at all surprised by this turn of events. It is much easier to single out blacks because we are demonized in society and gay white men are very used to having THEIR way. Also, we are BLACK and can be easily identified so people can see us. You can't necesariuly see a gay person. Shame and a disgrace.

DamonCM

Right on Rowan? How do we begin? It must start now!

Is there anyone else here willing to actually organize and get out?

Tolliver

What we need at this point is a FULL SCALE DIALOGUE. I for one very upset few black faces were used in the No campaign...We also need to try to get more black gay folk involved in this...WAKE UP PEOPLE

Bryan Watkins

I can guarantee you that if black people here this or black gay people they will NOT be pleased.

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