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11 November 2008

Comments

Baltimore Femme

.... What does it matter if there was little education and outreach to blacks. Your people were going to vote for this anyway....


What a racist bigoted rationalization of someone else's failure.

Grambling State

Kevjack, you are so right. Thanks Rod, you are always a great read but have been spot-on about this marriage amendment. I would like to harness this energy and get involved.

We have 30 states with amendments we will not get our rights at the ballot box. Back to the courts we go.

Rex

I find it really sad that people are doing more finger pointing and calling people names than trying to find a way to come together. I understand people are pissed off and are looking for people to blame but if we don't come together we aren't going to make it far in this war. If anything should have been learned from this it is that there certainly needs to be more outreach to other minority groups and those who were ignorant and fell for the lies of the yes on Prop 8 camp.

nahtans

I am incensed that some whites are saying that blacks are somehow ungrateful because they voted for Obama etc etc. Thy have some nerve! They should be grateful that blacks slaved for them for centuries with very little payback...

Folks it is 2008 so lets move forward! I think that most religious people have issues with gay marriage and perhaps we need to address that in finding a way forward.

Also Obama has already been the best president elect for gay rights!

Major O

Jasmyne Cannick is a fierce black warrior. She is not afraid to tell the truth as she sees it. Do I agree with her? Not all the time and I don't agree with her stand on marriage. But give props where prop is due.

ReggieH

The reaction of some white gays to Prop 8 plays right into the hands of the Right, and those who would deny/limit the rights of blacks, gays (and black gays) and other non-white, non-straight people. While I too am pissed as hell over the racism exposed by the victory of Prop 8, I also plan on attending the local "Stop the H8" rally this Saturday at our City Hall. It may give me a chance to 'read' some white gay "friends" as well!:)

I also seem to remember that No on 8 put out their 'Obama against Prop 8' flyer/mailer *after* the Pro-8 forces put out one with the President-Elect expressing his opposition to gay marriage. IMHO if you suspect this man's going to drag thousands to the polls, you try to hitch yourself to him as early and as closely as possible. No on 8 might have done better in Af Am and other communities of color if they'd put "Barack's against 8" out BEFORE the Pro-8 people did their thing.

PS: I've had some limited personal contact with Andrew Sullivan in DC on a couple of occasions. And considering how hard he was cruising a friend of mine once (and, admittedly, my friend is hot and built like a thick brick shithouse) IMHO Mr Sullivan has no problem with the idea of sexing the brothas...

Tolliver

I agree with Nahtans and something brother Derrick from Philly said. There is no gratitude here esp around our new President Obama. This man will possibly be the best president for gay community so what wtf is gratitude all about.
If you believed McCain would have been better you should have voted for him but I don't believe you did. tHIS is white privlege talking

bryce collins

"IMHO Mr Sullivan has no problem with the idea of sexing the brothas."

Yes, yes, yes. Sullivan loves black cock and that is why he is obsessed around black men.

SULLIVAN'S BAREBACKING PERSONAL AD SAID 'BROTHERS WELCOME'!

ALE

Thanks for bringing up this issue, I think it's the only way we can grow and come together by talking about the problems first.

Now on my fav. gay gal site a discussion about prop 8 turned into how people have the right to say the n-word b/c of free speech.
http://www.afterellen.com/node/39838?page=6

I-95

Rod, you are my new cyber hero. Thank you for standing up to this misinformation and blatant racism.

G

please read this. the comment is brilliant. thanks.

http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/11/10/1667759.aspx

nathans

By jackedup77


"First of all, Civil rights are not granted by popular vote.
I'll let you crunch the numbers. In America's history, what percentage of civil rights were denied by popular vote? I bet it's a fucking lot.

Historically, what is the most effective way to protect civil rights? The courts and the legislature.
With the courts, you just have to be persistent. You gotta cover for the cases that are going to be dropped and the ones that will be lost. Eventually, the courts will realize that it's their job to protect the rights of citizens...
With the legislature, you have to protest. Congress only hears the loud and multiple voices. And A healthy dose of boycotting never hurt anyone.

But if you insist on wasting your time trying to get people to vote for your cause then you have to learn how to campaign. From what I've seen, gay rights activists suck at campaigning.
They suck because they don't seem to put any thought in their campaigns... it's a lot of preaching to the choir. And for gay rights, the choir's pretty small.
And a whole lot of too little too late. I think I've heard more about prop 8 AFTER it passed than I did before it was voted on.

Word of advice... Don't fuck yourself.
Do You know the best way to fuck yourself? Alienation.

Common sense. If you alienate people, they won't vote for your causes.

I love Rachel Maddow; but I was a little disappointed in her for questioning Obama for Campaigning in Red states. She thought he was wasting his time. So, what would have happened if Obama just campaigned in Blue states? He would have lost. Why, because he would have been alienating Republicans, independents, and democrats who were ripe for the picking.
What happened to McCain who picked a running mate that was very attractive to the conservative base... he lost. Why? Because she alienated democrats and independents.

First mistake, you don't just assume that people are going to vote for your cause because it seems glaringly obvious to you that your cause is just. People don't work that way.
First obstacle, people are selfish. (With the exception of animals and babies)If a cause doesn't affect them or someone they know personally, they're going to be apathetic at most. At worse, those who oppose your cause are going to fill them with all types of reasons why your cause will affect them negatively. They will tell them that you are a threat to their way of life. And they will believe them.
Second obstacle, people are ignorant. Of course, this can be attributed to their selfishness.
You have to educate the people about your cause. Regarding issues that are seen as moral, education comes in the form of intimate conversations. It's putting a FRIENDLY face on your cause. It's going door to door. It's having real conversations with ALL of your friends about the issue (Don't just assume that they support your cause just because they're your friend). It means coming out to your family and showing them that you are not a threat to their way of life.

Second mistake, the whole "my people are more oppressed than your people" is just so fucked up. When someone tells you the story of their oppression, you don't try to drown them out with, "Well, I've been oppressed too, you're not special, I don't care about your oppression"
What you're supposed to do is say is, "I'm sorry to hear about your oppression. I too have suffered oppression. LET'S WORK TOGETHER TO STOP OPPRESSION."
Try it one day. It's not so hard.

I can't believe I'm going to address this race issue; but it's so fucking stupid I can't resist. First of all, ANYBODY can be a bigot. When you talk shit about a group of people because they're not like you... that makes you a bigot. When you don't support a group because they're not like you... that makes you a passive aggressive bigot. And IMO, a majority of people are passive aggressive bigots.
When you try to blame an entire group for the failure of your cause...that just makes you a stupid bigot. And... calling people a bigot... doesn't make them sympathetic to your cause.

So let's be realistic. Say you live in a community that has the church as its base. The best way you can organize this community is through the church. AND their church don't like the gays.
So, what happens if you're a gay person in this community? You keep it to yourself. (Side note, how feasible is same-sex marriage when you can't even come out of the closet?)
If you keep it to yourself, then how many of the people in this community are going to be truly educated about gay life? How many are going to be sympathetic to something they really know nothing about?
And if these people don't know any out gay people, who are they going to get their information about homosexuality from? The church. And we've established that the church doesn't like gay people.
But, let's say you do come out to your family. What do you think the family dynamics look like when the church is telling your family that you are morally wrong? Do you really expect conversations that focus on truly understanding the gay family member?


How do you reach out to these people? You teach them that their church doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about. How do you do that without alienating them? Encourage the gay people in their community to come out. How do you do that? This is the part where people outside of their community have to come in and show them support. This support will give them the courage to come out. Hopefully they can then use their intimate relationships and show their community that you're not of the Devil.

Food for thought...
You can't have true equality unless you achieve true unity. "

This guy is my hero....!He speaks the truth!

DFS

"How many gay white people marched in the civil rights movement...."

And how many sat back and enjoyed white privilege, regardless of their "inner demons"? How many, like J Edgar Hoover, were deliberately involved in sabotaging civil rights organizations? And why did McCain get a higher percentage of the LGBT vote than any other republican candidate?

The finger pointing historical tit for tat is silly. The marriage equality movement is going to have to tackle "people of faith" and "regular church goers" which is a problem across the board regardless of race.

Chris

Andrew Sullivan has been, and will always be, a second-rate pundit and neo-con. I have no idea why anyone would view him as remotely progressive. I am not surprised that his true colors have shown. Now perhaps he will go back under that rock he came out from under...

Nadia

There was an ad that ran like 2 days before the election narrated by Samuel L Jackson (although he wasn't credited on the commercial) that tried to connect the struggles of the black, Latino, Asian, and Armenian communities with those of the gay. You can do a youtube.com search for the video

Sonut Honti

Two snaps and a punch!!

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