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23 March 2009

Comments

Derrick from Philly

So, he was born in Britain. Well, that rules out deportation. And what good would deportation do anyway? They could remedy him the way the Russians still remove, I mean, remedy their dissidents.

Anderson

i saw this guy on CNN he is awful, awful. i doubt he will get much traction on this issue in britain but sadly the younger islamic population in the uk is becoming more radicalized

Barry S

Despicable and to think he hides his hatred behind the Koran.

alicia banks

i love his rabid honesty


i admire his pure hatred unmasked by hypochristian pretenses and fawning bs about "loving sinners" etc...

peace
ab

Israel Ramirez

This man, like many of on the American religious right, is a disgrace to his religion. He is not a holy man but a fraud and a charlatan. Who knows what insecurities he is trying to fight.

Oh and let me echo others welcome back Rod, great stuff today.

Carlos

@ Alicia:

You have a point. This man is an equal opportunity hater and does not try to pretend he is a friend or is concerned about your soul.

yeahisaidit

'sigh...' donkeys and other animals can NOT give consent...c'mon, all religious fundamentalists say it with me now...just once and for all I wish this tired argument of sex with or marriage to animals would die...both situations, at least in the U.S., are reserved for CONSENTING adults...

Tommy Ross

the religious fundamentalists all try to conflame homosexuality with bestiality and that is when you know they do not have a leg to stand on. it's so irrational comment is not even necessary, most people are ignoring it as they speak.

but anderson is very much right, the younger islamic population in europe is becoming more radicalized and koran thumpers like this one are the leading cause.

welcome back rod, you were truly missed and i hope your mom has recovered from her tragedy. great story lineup today as always

Wilson

Choudary is a cancer on British society.

Kevin Perez

The Koran DOES condemn homosexuals, point? Just like Christianity in the Bible does and the Torah.

Sorry I hate it but it's the most common arugments used against us that sound the most convincing.

alicia banks

ditto!!!

bestiality has nothing to do with 2 consenting sexual humans...

but it does allow us to counter attack fools re: what is natural

ie

it is natural for same species to engage in homo sex...god creates homo duos in every living species etc...etc....

see more:

http://www.geocities.com/ambwww/SCIENCE-OF-SEXUALITY.htm

peace
ab

Mel Smith

People like that Muslim cleric is so dangerous for us.

Henry TW

Kevin, I don't think anyone is arguing the Koran or Bible condemns gays. But it is a very selective reading. The New Testament makes no mention of gays whatsoever., Jesus Christ doesn't mention gays. Allah doesn't mention gays. And when you are comparing gays to bestiality I think you just lost the argument.

Choudary is a fool anyway. He has a very small group and always tries to get headlines. Which he accomplished here.

Lukas

@alicia banks, the existence of homosexuality (among other things) in the animal kingdom doesn't really matter. The whole argument of these religions is, that man is specially created by God in God's image (Awh... we're special -- how comforting -- doesn't it make you wonder whether God is as screwed up as we are?)

It is very telling of people to automatically mention homosexuality and bestiality in the same sentence -- it just shows that they see homosexuality as something sub-human. Of course it's easy to mistreat those one regard as beneath oneself.

Interestingly enough, no one seem to compare polygamy with heterosexuality in the same sentence.

John Ozed

Personally I am tired of the worship of these do nothing desert gods. 'Worship me or else' seems to be the message. 'Pray to me and I might just fulfill your desires, needs and wishes.' The majority of the followers are ignorant or as J-Zeus called them, the flock. I really look forward to the enlightenment of the human race. These people are dragging us down and backwards.

GRANT

--->It is very telling of people to automatically mention homosexuality and bestiality in the same sentence -- it just shows that they see homosexuality as something sub-human. Of course it's easy to mistreat those one regard as beneath oneself.

Lukas, you are absolutely right. I never thought about it like that.

gurlene

I wonder would this religious fart listen if I told him that is the same punishment he and his fellow ayotollahs deserve in my opinion who preach this garbage.

Mark

Anjem Choudary appears to be deluded or maybe a religious charlatan, but even in his twisted words you can find sources of truth along the way. Notice, namely, that he offers an acknowledgment that a man liking another man "can happen" - for him it is only acting on it that is a crime. This provides an out for straight people who experience fleeting desires for members of their own sex. What defines straightness is the refusal to act on homo desires, not the absence of such desires.

Meanwhile, as for the condemnation of homosexuality in the Bible and Qur'an, the only form of homosexuality condemned in either scripture is the sexual penetration of "males" (Leviticus 18:22, 20:13, Romans 1:28, I Corinthians 6:9, Qur'an 7:81, 26:165-166, 27:55, 29:28-29). Even this Chaudary character admits that it is only sexual penetration that counts. The evidentiary requirement of four witnesses that he cites means four witnesses must see the "key go into the lock," as one medieval commentator described it.

Moreover, the crime is sexual penetration not of a "same-sex partner," but rather sexual penetration of "males." That obviously exempts lesbians from any transgression of these precepts. But it also exempts sexual acts between men as long as the receptive partner is gay by nature. Gay men do not experience desire for or sometimes even potency with women, and therefore do not play the male role in procreation. In ancient societies in which homosexual desires were pervasive and widely and openly acknowledged, what set gay men apart from the majority was not their homosexual desires, but their impotence with women. As a result, they were not considered "male," in the same way that gay men today are not considered "real men" in some quarters.

Thus the condemnation of homosexuality in scriptures is directed against sexual penetration of men who by nature are likely to have sex with women.

But we cannot even begin to have this conversation with religious people until we acknowledge that what sets us as gay men and lesbians apart from them as straights is not our homosexual desires, but rather our lack of heterosexual desires. This lack of heterosexual desires in turn makes gay men in particular nonprocreative by nature and puts us in a different gender category from straight and bisexual men, so that the prohibition against sexual penetration of males does not apply to acts in which the receptive role is played by one of us, regardless of whether the top is gay, bi or straight.

Cajiva

Mark very good post

Derrick from Philly

Fascinating post, MARK. But not what most gay men (influenced by Western-style homosexuality) want to hear...but fascinating.

Chris Cruz

That is a very thoughtful commentary Mark. Do you think most men are capable of bisexual or same sex attractions?

Mark

Thanks, guys.

Chris: Yes I do. But in these modern, hetero-normative times, it freaks them out, so they deny and repress it. And especially now that we gays are out and proud, it really freaks them out, to the point that many of them are scared to even touch each other -- except athletes, thank god!

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