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03 June 2009

Comments

DFS

Its very hard for me not to lump all black churches into the same anti-gay fold, so its good to be reminded that there are those with a more enlightened perspective.

Kyle

This is very good news. I also forget sometime that we have many progressive black clergy and we need to make sure other folks, especially black folks, know this too.

Chitown Kev

Those DC black queens had better speak and not turn it into a race war.

Hell, my cousin lives in DC and I have some vacation time, I may consider going there for a week or 2 just to do some work on the ground.

Good to see these churches and pro-marriage equality pastors speak up!

Chitown Kev

[REWIND]

Those DC black queens had better speak up and not allow this turn it into a race war in the District.

Hell, my cousin lives in DC and I have some vacation time, I may consider going there for a week or 2 just to do some work on the ground.

Good to see these churches and pro-marriage equality pastors speak up!

Luther

I hope this has been sent to non-black gay internet sites which all insist, along with their readers that every black person, including black gays, are homophobic and anti-equality.

FREELEO

Very good news.

Chad Montgomery

It's about time progressive Christians stood up. We must not let conservatives define marriage and family! I will give them no ground.

And yes, where are the many black gays in DC? Shopping? You can't throw a rock in that city without hitting a black queen.

Derrick from Philly

Amen, Luther.

I've criticized black folks' anti-gay behavior on the Internet ever since I discovered Keith Boykin's Blog six years ago, and I used harsher language than anybody (even the KKK). But when I discovered Towleroad, I couldn't believe how sanctimonious some white "children" are:

"you blacks ought to know better"

"there's rampant homophobia among blacks."

I thought, "where do you get your moral superiority, Miss Ann?"

Which race has committed more atrocities against gay people from the Inquisition to the Holocaust?

Yes, Luther, I too am glad to see these black ministers in DC speak up for full civil rights for gay people. Actually, black folks have never had a problem with civil rights for gays--it's the marriage issue.

But no, I don't defend black homophobia, but I'll be damned if I'll allow Miss Ann to white-wash white homophobia. And neither can "she" call all black people "stupid" 'cause like you said, Luther, they're talking about black gays too....and that means me. I don't even allow handsome trade to call me stupid.... 'course I haven't known any handsome trade in a few years ("known" in the Biblical sense).

Laurent

Amen Brother Derrick!

Kevin Perez

"Actually, black folks have never had a problem with civil rights for gays--it's the marriage issue."

I would find that pretty much stupid if I were a individual who wanted my relationship with my partner legally regonized under the law. They're okay with civil rights except marriage? Nah, I think that doesn't even make it remotely okay, no matter how much they claim they "support" gay rights. There's something oxymoronic about that and very unconvincing.

Calling out a group of people who traditionally have been looked down as vile scum, less than human and mistreated for hundreds of years that are willing to do to others what's been done to them isn't moral supperiority or "racism". It's the truth. Just like Latin Americans who decry racism but look down on their darker-skinned kin and continue to share such primtive views. I'm happy to see these people break barriers as well. But the notion of Black America and Latin Americans being more homophobic didn't start with racist pastry queens.

I'm still in the closet so I would never ever demand someone to "speak out" or "stand up" but at the same time, I never resort to gaybashing that many closeted church queens and DL folk to prove themselves as "straight".

Derrick from Philly

KEVIN,

I always ask gays who complain about black homophobia to compare those homophobic black folks with whites of the same economic, educational and/or religious background. Nobody can tell me that "working-class" or poor white boys are any less prone to violence against gays than "working-class" or poor black boys. The percentage of poor black folks is much higher, and I imagine that they live near "gayborhoods"--or places where gay people hang-out. That, of course, means that you will encounter a violent, anti-gay black man more often than you will encounter a violent, anti-gay white man.

For years, I lived by something that Billie Holiday said to Maya Angelou (according to Angelou in her book "Heart Of A Woman".

In the midst of some argument, Lady Day said, "crackas aint gonna' do you no good, but niggaz aint much better."

KEVIN, I've been violently gay-bashed by black men, and I've been violently black&gay-bashed by white men. A majority of Black folks have got to come into the 21st Century on this issue of gay civil rights--full gay civil rights. But like I said, white gays are not going to tell me how "horrible" black people are. Historically, they do not have the moral authority--black gays do.

xavier

Now that's the gay friendly DC I know. There are plenty of supportive clergy and black folk in the District. But as Rod has said were is the black lgbt community on this issue? I can see the "race war" on the horizon. Heck its already began.

Chitown Kev

@Kevin Perez

A personal question. Why are you still closeted?

I'm not going to nit-pick your post, in fact, I agree with much of it but I do have to point out that closted queens in DC is not the problem. There are many, many, many out queens in the churches and in the DC black gay community (or at least it was when I lived there-I doubt it's changed THAT much)

The problem I have is that the out queens DO NOT SPEAK UP! Or they haven't spoken up about all this drama up 'til this point.

Kevin Perez

I read my post again and see that it comes off as a long, emotional obsessive rant. Let met clarify a couple things:

1) My personal feelings about the homophobia in Black community strike home with the homophobia in the Latino community, as well as Latin American society as a whole. And perhaps to a lesser degree Asian Americans and recent Middle Eastern/Arab immigrants.

2) Given the relationship and the "kinship" Puerto Ricans have with African Americans, as well as their culture similarties, I hold Black people to same standard I do towards Latinos and my fellow people. ESPECIALLY ON HOMOPHOBIA

3) Countless times I've praised the many religious-affliated people who are fighting against homophobia and the notion of Black people being the MOST homophobic group of people out there, even despite my personal feelings of religion in general.

4) I have bad grammar because I write in a rush ALL the time. I just graduated High school yesterday and mad habits still hinder the way I write even online.

5) Homophobia, to me, is not "all" the same and differs greatly by ethnicity, race and cultural, economic and religious background. Sorry, but that's just how I feel. A person who is born in a rural area of Puerto Rico hearing about Jeebus all their lives and the evils of teh gays and is homophobe isn't the same as some snot middle class individual from American surburbia who is a homophobe

5) YOU CAN BE EDUCATED AND STILL BE A HOMOPHOBE. Really, college education and schooling doesn't stop anti-gay feelings.

6) For a something that caters to mostly LGBT Black folk, I LOVE THIS BLOG! I really do! I found it last year and fell in love with it. It's great insight oon LGBT folk and better than most gay blogs out there. ESPECIALLY LATINO ONES! Although I'm Latino, I'm a light-skinned Puerto Rican, so I don't know where I rank as a person of color and don't like people to assume I've basing my judgement on "White Privilege" OR SOME BS LIKE THAT!

7) Sorry for the long, lenghty posts!

Jai

@ Kevin:

congratulations on your graduation. i graduated from high school a few years ago and am in college now, so I can understand where you are coming from. and keep up with the lengthy posts, at least you have something to say on these important issues...heck, some of these black gay men that read this blog are twice your age could care less about gay rights or history.
and your grammar is just fine.

as far as being Puerto Rican, there is no "ranking" as a person of color. you are what you say you are. as a Latino and Puerto Rican many people would say you are POC but it's what "you" say that counts.

i think Derrick make some good points about socioeconomic status....many poorly educated, lower income whites are just as hostile to gays if not more. Heck, look across the south, appalachia and midwest. look at eastern europe. look at the republican party.

you are right...you can be educated, or wealthy, or middle class an be homophobic. but the chance are more than likely you are against gays if you are poor. blacks are disproportionately poorer and less educated. there you go.

i am glad you and other young people my age are on here. i am 21 and in college, i discovered this blog last last year, i absolutely love it for black and latino gay news. rod, if i had some money and you took donations i would gladly donate! you are a lifeline to our community, muah!

Chitown Kev

@Kevin P.

Congratulations on your HS graduation. I knew you were young but not that young.

You have it on the money about the kinship between Puerto Ricans and African Americans. In a way, I've never liked the term "Latino" becuase it's far too broad.

Jim

“The black church and the black community have been characterized by some as being united in opposition to same-sex marriage,” Christine Wiley said. “This could not be further from the truth,” she said. “Black people are not monolithic. We are diverse just like all other human beings.”

I wish Ms. Wiley could have wrapped up her last sentence with:

“...Some of us are bigots, and some of us aren’t.”

@ Kevin Perez: At the risk of sounding condescending, let me say your thoughts are pretty impressive for someone who just graduated from high school yesterday. I hope you continue developing your thoughts and writing for decades into the future.

JT

In the same vein, not all Africans are homophobic. The first country in the world to put LGBT equality in their constitution was South Africa. That country has recently featured black gay romances in a few TV dramas.

Also, Huey P. Newton of the Black Panther Party was one of the first black political leaders to defend gay rights and to compare our struggle to the black struggle for liberation.

Homophobic blacks can be reminded of the many ways that queerness is very African or very black

Kevin Perez

Chitown Kev:

There's somewhat a lot of controversy around the terms "Hispanic" and "Latino" due to the fact the neither define race or ethnicity. Latin America is a diverse region however, I'd rather be identified by either of those terms, or by my respective nationality or simply "person of Latin American origin".

I detest being categorized as "White" or "European descent" as well as "White Hispanic" or "White Latino" and "White Latin American" because by categorizing people in Latin American culture like that, as well as those who are mixed-race soley as "Black" and "Mulatto" it becomes just as problematic as those who deny their cultural heritage (Ex. The many Latin Americans who hide or downplay their African or non-European ancestry). One be could be "White", "Black", "Asian", "Arab", "Mixed-race" and still be part of the Latino community.

Anyways, with what I was reading about the history about LGBT Blacks in Chicago, it should put an the end to entire of myth about the non-existence of LGBT folk and the fact they've been here long before Nation of Islam, Rastafarian beliefs and etc...

Derrick from Philly

KEVIN,

I don't know if you are still reading this thread, but I just want to say that I think you are very intelligent, very honest and very brave. I feel like I've been having a discussion with someone who just graduated college--not highschool. Young folks like you are a huge plus for black and Latino gay people.

kayman

Well, this is a positive turn of things with all things considered. I just wish more black clergy in other cities particularly in the South would come out and say they are for social progressive stances. Though I think something such as legal should be allowed to recognize a same-sex union should be allowed in all places, more black clergy should stand up and speak.

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