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29 October 2009

Comments

D. Askew

Yes indeed. It is time we had this conversation in our community!

Some of us get so excited and outraged around "hate crimes" but we are very quiet as church mice around these "crimes of passion".

Especially us black folks. We are taught from jump to keep up with the Jones and pretend everything is fine. Look at our black gay community... HIV and AIDS is off the charts, drug and substance abuse is sky high, we have seen generations of domestic violence and continue to pretend black gay men are doing just fine and okay.

Eric Trujilio

>>>Reportedly there is "an increased demand" in anti-violence services by LGBT persons of color and LGBT youth—who unfortunately are often taught to value hyper-masculine behavior and ignore/minimize domestic violence. Read hundreds of supportive comments here.<<<

And we're the ones who need the services the most because our community are like ostriches. So much focus on racism, white gays and comments at Towleroad. Little focus on "building" a community and how we can help ourselves.

Black and latino men need to assert ourselves and our rights. We also have to keep our side of the street clean if you now what I mean.

Whatuthink

Well his gay life is over. WAIT... he's going to prison.

Sean Beasley

What Eric said.

It has been swept under the rug and the same queens that excuse Chris Brown and look for rough trade will be the first to get their faces bashed by trade. Thats why we are requesting more counseling and need more DV help.

And yea it will be quiet up n here. It's easier to point the figure at gay bashing str8s and hateful whites than ourselves.

And thanks Rod for the story and the news on DV.

Face and Waist

a 19yo with a 59yo?
and did you see his pic?

trade was HOT! can we say sugar daddy?

TheRevKev

To both Eric and D. Askew, I agree 100%. We spend so much time on the discussions that have so little to do with our everyday lives (and I do understand escapist mentality and days away from the stuff) but at some point we have to PAY ATTENTION.

I am so disheartened by the friend who listened as they fought and watched as he killed his lover. It's so sad that we let "boys-being-boys" translate to a "stay out of men's business" mentality.

I know it has a lot to do with me being a counselor by trade, but My God, these cases are just a tiny candle light in illuminating the truth of how homophobia, self-hatred, conflicts with our own families and communities, coupled with the pressures of being demonized for who you love, can show up in relationships among LGBT people.

Thank you Rod, for prompting this conversation today. I pray that we see more comments here than anywhere else in the history of your site. This is uncomfortable and that's exactly why we must stand up and speak out.

I am praying for every couple involved in domestic violence! May each of you seek help!

Saadiq

"The witness said he watched as Williams retrieved a knife from the kitchen and began stabbing Henderson with it. "

He just watched it and said or did nothing? And they were living in his house? Really?

Terry Y

I know Terry Williams he is a friend and right now my heart is very sad that whatever has happened to him has caused him to do something so bad i'm praying for him as we should all pray for him and other going through things like this

Earl FF

@ Rev Kev:

I love your grace and your inspiration. You always know what to say and when to say it. I totally agree with you. I feel like our black gay community (or should I say culture) goes out of its way to have conversations and make progress. I can understand some escapism here and there, but NO protests or pushbacks against hate crimes? None around Tony randolph? No comments here on HIV? But a celebrity or a gogo boy someone doesnt like.. ding ding!

My best friend was in an abusive relationship. I have seen other gay men slapped or punch by their "lovers" in public just like I have seen this happen to women. We reallly are foolish to pretend wwe are above it all.

I hope this man is prosecuted and spends the rest of his life in prison. I doubt he'll be such a big man up in the big house.

Andy Niable

Many good comments here, and yes, Rod, thank you again for reportage we rarely see anywhere else, nationally.

VJ

I really don't have a lot of gay friends and have been with my partner for 8 years. When I talked with another blk gay male at work a couple of years ago, he asked if my partner and I ever got into physical confrontations. When I told him "no, never", he was shocked and said he didn't believe me. It's a sad state of black gaydom if violence is considered the norm.

Zambos27

I think that the black community in general needs to find another way of dealing with domestic issues instead of turning to violence. But when it comes to domestic issues, we are taught that violence is the way to teach whomever that we aren't going to tolerate it. How many of us rooted Bernie on in Waiting to Exhale when she burned his car up or enjoy the song "Bust the Windows" by. Jazmine Sullivan?

Faison

@ VJ:

Really? I'm so sad to hear that. I have heard the same thing from many of my black gay friends, too. i think its more prevalent in older and younger demos...old and young tend to gravitate toward "roles" and maybe they think its to be expected. Just my two cents.


I've seen more than my share of domestic violence in "our' community. It breaks my heart.

Cedric

Thanks Rod for your blog and once again I enjoy the read. I can say that I was in a relationship and my then lover hit me. You would have thought Miss Sophia was in the room because I went off! Let just say he nver hit me again. May have thought of it but that classical experience kicked in. I always tell my friends and others to not to fight or put your hands on others. Their response is you are always saying you are going to punch somebody but I don't have to. They know I mean it. I will say at ATL Pride I saw so many peeps fight that I will not return to the ATL Pride again. It was certainly a disappointment and sad. We come all this way to fight and to go to jail.

Terry Y

i know Terry Williams he was always one of the sweetest people i had ever met, i can not believe that he has done something so horrible. Something had to have happened to make him go over the edge!

Whatuthink

What is a 59yr doing with a 19yr old? The sixty year old should know better. Ridiculous. There is too much against this relationship to work. An immature 19 year old who can't see consequences of actions. A desperate 59 year old who doesn't know to keep trade outside. You can't make someone who is 40 years younger than you a spouse. Trade comes to bed and then leaves. Never stays.

Derrick from Philly

Reading the comments, I'm struck by the criticism aimed at those of us who spend "too much time complaining about racist white gays" All right, there are other issues that are more important to many black gay folks--I respect that.

I also respect the idea that there must be different solutions or strategies suggested to combat domestic violence among black gays. One of which must be building self-esteem. That self-esteem must include seeing yourself as NEVER inferior to anyone else just because you are of African descent.

Most of us who complain or lash out at white gay racism are ALWAYS responding to some attack on us, or some awful memory of racial persecution. We just don't do it as a "past-time". Pointing out racism among white gays does not mean that you excuse bad behavior among black gays. Hell, no, I've got a heap of criticsim for all kinds of homos--including me.

Do y'all believe that domestic violence is not a problem for all racial/ethnic groups?--it really worse among black gays than other gays? Now, if poverty, coming from rough neighborhoods, unemployment, substance abuse are major factors in domestic violence--then those who endure those hardships will be more likely to have violence in their relationships, their lives--whether they are black or white.

If you believe that there is a "culture of violence" among too many black gays then it also exist for too many black straights.

I don't like violence, but at my age, I'm gonna' defend myself-- whether it's against some vicious black gay-basher, a no-good piece of trade, another evil black queen, or some snooty white racist b-tch....that's all.

soulbrotha

Thank you, Derrick. School the chil'rens, chile.

mjolnir202

So many good comments on this post. While domestic violence is not unique to any race or demographic, I think we as black people in general and black gay men,specifically have some major issues regarding this. We really do seem to think it's normal to be in controlling, destructive, dangerous relationships. As other commentators have pointed out, many of us think it's normal to hit one another out of frustration or anger and find it incredulous that other black gay men aren't living like this.

It seems to be common in the black community think that if you can just hit someone and shut them up then that makes your position more right or valid. We love to talk about how we're going to slap the hell out of our kids, because that will grow them up right. Well, we are slapping the hell out of our kids (often in public) and black children are not growing up right. They're killing each other like they're in the mountains of Afghanistan. Violence is not working.

Black gay clubs are the ONLY gay clubs I've ever been frisked for weapons at. I was floored the first time that happened. Sadly, I know why. I've seen too many black gay men, beating, cutting, stomping each other inside and outside of clubs over some lover's quarrel, he said/he said nonsense or "He looked at my Man" BS. Even more sad, many of these men are full grown in their 30's and above.

The comment about ATL Pride is so heartbreaking. Fighting at Pride. Think about that. Of course, when I do think about it, I've seen some fights at NYC Pride in Village too. The Village, Christopher St, is where the black and latinos generally hangout during New York's main parade in June, for those who don't know. It can be a great time, but I've also seen some true embarassment and thuggish behavior that seem more appropriate to animals than human beings. Why must we behave like this? Why? Why are we the only group in America to actually take a word like "Thug" and decide that this is what we want to be known as? Why do we want to behave like Thugs? Why do we want to sleep with Thugs? And, why on earth do we scream like Banshees when a white person think one of us is a Thug when we got up in the morning, made a conscious decision to dress "Thugged out", walk down the street menacingly like we're about to commit a crime? Then we act surprised and offended when people think we're Thugs? Why do we accept and propogate what once a racist charge by whites? Why do we think this is normal? Why have black gay men decided that adopting black straight dysfunction is the way to go?

kayman

I'm not surprised at all. All I can say is if you see it's going to be a coupling of physical, emotional, or mental abuse (there are the signs) then it's time to walk away. Nobody or relationship is worth your life...

Chaz

This is VERY interesting. It is also the first time in my twenty-two years to have read about a domestic dispute between two gay men that took a fatal turn for the worst. Though I think what he did is wrong, I refuse to sit here and further criminalize this man. I sympathize with him because I understand that one can become so emotionally connected to another leading them to do some things they wouldn't do under "normal" circumstances. My sympathy has NOTHING to do with the fact that he and I share the same sexual orientation. I would sympathize with anyone in this situation. Very unfortunate for the two lives that have been taken in this case that could have been avoided.

Terry Y

@ Chaz i totally agree! I am in no way condoning what my friend has done, I am saddened that for some reason he chose to do something so horrible instead of just walking away i am just praying for him and for the family of the victim, this is a horrible situation for all parties and the gay community as a whole we are scrutinized for loving the people we love and then when things like this happen the ridicule just get worse for our community. Terry Williams is a human being whom i have always known to be a kind and compassionate person that is why this is such a shock to me. Losing life is not worth a relationship that is bad for your mental physical and emotional well being!

Chris Cruz

>>>This is VERY interesting. It is also the first time in my twenty-two years to have read about a domestic dispute between two gay men that took a fatal turn for the worst.

@ Chaz:
Then you must be new a reader to this blog. I can recall several gay domestic homicide stories in the past year. And I myself personally know of two men who were killed by their lovers and I personally saw a sistah run down her girlfriend with a Jeep Cherokee outside the Generator in Chicago. And backed up to do it again.

Domestic violence is just as common in the LGBT community as the straight community, even more so in certain demographics. You really really aren't trying to say only hetero men and women beat and kill their partners? Gays and lesbians never ever do it?

@ Terry:
Sorry, but we're not trying to "criminalize" your friend who stabbed and killed his boyfriend while another man watched. He "criminalized" himself. Attitudes like that are EXACTLY why we are having this conversation ... grown azz men pretending this doesn't happen or people shouldn't "judge". Are you doing to say that when someone is mugged or gay-bashed? A man is dead. JUDGE.

You don't have to judge your friend. The courts will and we have every right to discuss this just like anything else or any other case. It's a murder investigation and criminal case. There's no privacy there, sorry.

Chaz

@ Chris Cruz
First of all, I think you are out of line. You have also made a lot of false assumptions. If I was TRYING to say something, I would have just said it.You were right in your observation of one thing, seeing as I am a new reader of this blog.

Furthermore, I don't believe Terry is in denial about what happened. He is only expressing his sympathy for his friend who had never given him a reason to suspect he would be able to commit such a fatal act. It is a SHOCKING situation to him, understandably so. He also states that what his friend did was wrong.

Finally, why are you equating this with gay bashing? They are two different situations that warrant two different responses. You are coming at us sideways. This is a blog, and you are free to say what you want here; well, to some degree. If I choose not to further criminalize this man, that is my choice. Where did myself or Terry say anything about not judging? Did our responses suggest that? Sweetie, you can judge him until the cows come home. I don't care what you do.

Thanks.

shalonda

To the guy who commented about terry being his friend. Thats all fine and dandy but Shawn was my brother and didnt deserve that. I met terry several of times and invited him into my home and for him or anyone else to do a human being like that is just evil. He did not stab my brother one or two times:17 deep stab wounds, so i do hope that whatever punishment he gets is hard and miseralbe for him......A sister in pain.

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