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12 November 2009

Comments

wondermann

great point

Evan

The Facebook link just takes me to my homepage...is it broken?

Beth

In the COGIC clips McClurkin did not call LGBT-folk "vampires". He said young people were staying up late, all hours of the night, like "vampires" [on the computer].

McClurkin says enough hateful ridiculous rhetoric; given how prone he is to misspeaking for others, we should be careful not to take his vitriol out of context.

As I said before, I'm not defending him- just correcting/clarifying.

rae

the links to the facebook entries don't seem to be working

Dre`love

Yes, Please repost the link to the Facebook conversation, we cant seem to access it please.

Thanks so much!

Rod Mc

I think the Facebook links work only if you're on FB. I will see what I can do. -RM

Okay I reposted the links at my FB -RM

filmfledgling

I don't know how anyone can watch those clips and NOT see a thirsty, pathological, desperate queen whose roots have been dug up.... He wants the children to "confess" and come to the alter... so that they can become... him??

ALLEGRO

While I applaud Rev. Flunders remarks....this is easier said than done. Basically, what she is saying to the young people....go against your parents and they God they serve and have taught them to serve. Do you realize how overwhelming it is for them to just even THINK about going against these two powerful and influential forces in their lives....let alone act against it? It's pretty careless when you think about the risks involved. Where will these kids go if they are thrown out on their ass? Who will take them in and help them land on their feet when they are rejected and ostracized? In many instances this is the SOUTH...where there are not as many alternatives for youth as there are in major places like a NYC, LA, DC, etc. I'm not sayin ghtey should just hide in the closet all their lives....but where is the support if they do decide to take the bold step and come out?

Kevjack

The Bishop is dead on. Donnie let slip one kernal of truth in his otherwise hateful rant-- the church is failing our young people. They are failing them because of hateful rhetoric like this and the fact that their own behavior goes unchecked. The young people know mess when they see mess and they have responded in kind.

Many of these church leaders are living lives that would make any decent person blush, but if you cover it up right, speak in tounges, and shout right it's all ok. That is the message that Donnie is giving-- join me in my self hate closet. We'll have sex and still call ourselves saved. What a mess!! And thankfully somebody has responded.

Carlos

"Basically, what she is saying to the young people....go against your parents and they God they serve and have taught them to serve."

If the parents, the family and the church says they are going to hell, they should pray away the gay or kicks them out...yes. "Their" God may say he can make them ex-gay. "Mine" does not.

But really? Wow.
That's the whole essence of coming out. But it sounds like you're arguing black LGBTs should just stay in the closet, go to Bible thumping churches, STFU and follow the likes of Donnie McClurkin all their lives.

There are plenty of resources for young people and adults if they want to come out. Bishop Flunder has a nationwide church. Another pastor was listed.The previous story is about coming out at HBCUs. It is difficult to be open and honest but its a helluva lot more difficult to be an adult and live a lie.

No offense, but you sounds very old school. The purpose of this blog (and coming out) celebrates black gay men. Not just black gay sex. Big difference. You just argued against the core of coming out. That thinking is just as dangerous as Donnie McClurkin.

kayman

Carlos, Allegro isn't so much arguing against coming out as much as they are saying that in the most portions of the South or anywhere aside from the Northeast that there are very places to go if they are kicked out the home by parents or relatives for being SGL outside of the large metropolitan areas. Remember most of the US black population does live in the South. If one is going to embark on this have a plan in place to go because being homeless is no joke at all. Homeless shelters are already full in this recession.

They shouldn't advocate or believe any of the garbage being said by the likes of McClurkin, but you can't just go into something like this half-cocked. Eveybody's situation is different and sometimes coming out may not the immediate as idealistically, but they are still coming out in stages.

That's not being 'old school', that's being realistic and wise to your individual situation.

Rod Mc

@Allegro and Kayman:

I disagree and fear you're being simplistic. "Youth" does not mean an under 18yo minor. It can mean a college student or someone in their 20s. Both of you are very smart and know this quite well.

"I am encouraging these young people to find their voices and not run to the shadows to live in fear like my generation has. Watch the signs, change is possible."

What is so controversial about that? Flunder's message is about coming out and acceptance. That's a gradual process and takes many years. Many gay men, esp black gay men, are still battling demons in their 30s and 40s. She is not telling high school gay boys to leave home. She is not telling college students to defy their parents and risk being cut off. Where in Flunder's message does she tell LGBT youth to rebel and risk life and limb? Where does she say "teenager"? Nowhere.

Surely you're not saying in the digital age of 2010 there are no options for a 23yo black gay man in Mississippi? Or an HBCU college student? There are always options and choices and thankfully the internet (which I didnt have growing up in the 80s) offers a wealth of possibilities. I'm the first to talk about the difficulties of being LGBT in the black community (homophobia, discrimination, church etc) but it is a choice for an ADULT to live in the closet.

I cannot even tell you how many 40- and 50-something black gay men email me, afraid to come out. Someone the other day told me they go to a well known anti-gay pastor's church because that was "the" most socially desirable church. He said LGBT inclusive churches were like "castaways." WTF? So he would rather be verbally gay-bashed than loved.

Flunder's message is my own. Black LGBTs can and should come out when they are ready and when it's safe. But our black LGBT community is very much closeted. It's in our collective DNA and many of us are programmed to reflexively attack out and open black LGBTs.

@ Everyone: If there is a lack of resources for black LGBTs or black LGBT youth in your area do something about it. Volunteer, be a role model, attend an inclusive church, mentor, donate to HIV groups, come out to family, help find a job for a gay kid, encourage your friends to read blogs as opposed to A4A, start a blog or book club ... do something. Anything. If every black LGBT person continues to say "there is nothing out there", there won't be anything out there. Someone has to lead, everyone cannot complain. -RM

Cedric

Amen Rod! I feel you on that! I came out last year to my family atfer years of being away from home. I am now 37. But left the nest right at 18. I tried to embrace being something I was not but I could not because something didn't feel right inside. So I was watching "Shirt n Skins" and listened to the message that they had to offer. My family was great! None of them turned me away just embraced me with LUV! Now for the youngsters I am not for sure what can turn them around but themselves! I wished that there were a magic potion or something. It is hard to just sit by and watch a generation dye off. Now I was part of a pride and try to provide a safe haven for ALL but the kidz just wanted to party and sex! Not all but most. Hopefully they will see the light and begin to follow it. I sure they will! I will keep them in my prayers!

Former COGIC

Cedric that is a wonderful story. Bless you and I am so happy you are finding peace. It's a wonderful feeling, isn't it? It took me many years, but I found it too.

Yvette Flunder is NOT the problem. Rod is NOT the problem. Donnie McClurkin and these gay hating churches are the problem. But many of us are the problem because we enable the anti gay and homophobia attitudes by our silence. Bishop Flunder did not encourage underage black gay teens to risk being thrown out. I don't see that anywhere. What I do see are many black gay men are afraid and think 'better the devil you know than you don't know.' We all enjoy man to man sex and many of us want the sex and no responsibility. We want to be out on our terms and have little contact with gay rights, even when they affect us personally. We feel like we can go to church and as long as we dont speak up for ourselves, we will be accepted in 'Dont Ask Dont Tell'. It's not a good look.

Bless you Bishop Flunder, Rev Brown and Rev Kev! Thank you Rod for all you do and Cedric for your testimony.

Derrick from Philly

Great discussion and comments from all of y'all. Really.

ALLEGRO

First of all, THANK YOU KAYMAN....if for not agreeing with me...at least understanding where I am coming from.

Secondly, I don't need anyone misinterpreting my words for me. Yes...I did interpret her words to include teenagers under the age of 18. And why would I not? She was responding to Donnie McClurkins hate filled rant.....which he did at a COGIC YOUTH session which consists of a large number of young people under the age of 18. Those are the people I am afraid of. I mean where have you been? I work with youth and these kids are EXPRESSING THEMSELVES more flamboyantly than ever before...whether they openly admit to being gay or not. These are the very people Donnie was talking about. So for them to take it to the next step and admit they are gay could also be putting themselves in a potentially dangerous situation physically and emotionally, if they don't have a plan when the news is not taken well. And I am asking the question....what is to happen to them...where are they to go....if they are to as was suggested. Hell...why would consider people over 18 and in their 20's "youth"....yes they are younger than me....but they have more options as legal adults.
If you say, hon. Take care. -RM

Carlos

Allegro:

We all know what Bishop Flunder said and what she didn't say.

Flunder presides over 60+ churches.

And you are an anoymous concern troll.

Massive fail. Massive, massive fail.


Mikhail

I think some of you missed what allegro was touching on. Sure, the internet may provide resources and information for troubled gay youth and adults but how much of that is clouded by sexual imagery. As a young gay teenager, I've come across many blogs that express the everyday issues that we deal with, but before that I see countless ads for porn sites. The internet can be a great resource, but it can also be misleading. A young gay male that is hurting will probably more readily identify with good feelings that sex can bring than actually getting to the root of the problem of why he or she is hurting. I agree with Rod about there needing to be a variety of resources for the lbgt community, but they tend to get overlooked. I feel you so much on that point but in comparison to the internet there is a lack of resources available in smaller, Southern communities.

alicia banks

great news!

i love her and her church!

we need more real christians like her to speak as loudly and often as bernice king/gay donnie mcclurkin/rick warren/charlene cothran etc...

the hypochristians get all the best press!!!!

thanks rod

Mikhail

and no flunder didn't exactly go this far in her statement, but I think it's important for us to take this conversation in a different direction so that everyone's opinion can be heard. we should be able to have healthy discussions without dismissing one's opinion.

ALLEGRO

[I've written about this extensively. I don't debate anonymous people ... in comments ... on my blog. Take care "Allegro". -RM]

Dee

Beth. You say he did not call them vampires. he did not have to. when he speaks about gay youth different from straight youth, and than says theese gay youth stay up late on the computer like vampires, it imply's that gay youth are more of a vampire than a straight youth. Thus calling gays vampires...

and if it was about black people, and a white man said we were like vampires, you would feel the same way the gay community feels, and any negative words meant to the black race, would offend you.. even if it werent directly aimed at you...

and especially if it werent true... gays stay up late on the computer allnight??????? okaaaaay... i never knew that was in the gay handbook!!!

(yours is all that i got a chance to read. but i will be able to see everyone's post at a later time, and give more feedback)

Diva1961

I teach at a university and i can tell you that te kids who are there are under the same type of restictions that a lot of teenagaers are under, because mentally, emotionally, and financially the situation/s are the same as high school.

There are still college students who for the first couple of years still think they are the only gay in the universe and are too afraid to venture out to see thay are not alone.

Also, the Bishop did not tell the kids to come out right this moment and run amouk and get disowned by their parents. However, you can be out, yet not be out to your parents. She is talking about having self awareness and selk love. Neither requires one to "come out". If they are in unsafe environments, of course coming out to others can be dangerous, but still they can still be out to themselves and build strength and courage within themselves as human beings and lgbt people, so that when people come to town to rant and rave against lgbt's they won't ingest this foolishness and do harm to themselves because of it. None of this requires "outing" one's self to their parents.

Being slef aware allows for the children to question the rules. If not with their parents or clergy, at least amongst themselves. This inner strength that self acceptance brings allows one to look for possible resources that in turn can lead to safe spaces. When you are held in fear you don't always look for an "out", a safe space. Kids are coming out earlier and earlier and supporting each other. Yes, it's hrad down south, but in upstate NY also and rural MI, and I have had students from major cities (NY, LA, Miami, ect) who still found it hard to come out because they didn't "hang" in the type of circles that they felt would allow them the freedom to explore their sexuality, and they were afraid it would get back to their parents through the people they did hang around.

This is why self awareness is the first part of the puzzle to keep from getting enslaved by hate speech in the name of God. It has nothing to do with location. The Bishop is just pleading for the kids not to "fall in line" and ultimatly back into the closet like her generation did. The kids of this generation are stronger than previous generations. They are willing to fight and sacrifce more, and stand and be heard, just like the kids in the audience who were dressing like the gay kids do. He tried to shame them, but I think they talk to each and got each other's back way more than we did back in the day. That's why the Bishop has hope for the future. I do also. A lot of the old girls are STILL fearful. I say let the kids lead on this one.

www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=48603347

Being a black gay youtuber and what I would still like to consider a gay youth I felt the need to share my voice on the issue as well. Please check the link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQH0WEax238

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