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21 December 2009

Comments

D. Askew

>>>This latest report by The Hill doesn't even mention ENDA, which could illustrate where it falls on Pelosi's legislative priorities, or, that it's not "controversial" and will get a floor vote. You be the judge.

ROFL. I'll take the first choice, even though I'm sure the messaging from the "hope and change" crowd will "hope" that since ENDA isn't mentioned, it will get a vote. Haha

wondermann

This is a hard one. I can wait, if they do it right.

Former COGIC

This Congress and this White House have been such a disappointment. And please to don't start talking about "Would McCain or Palin be any better?" I'm talking about what was promised and what was the potential. Obama had a historic landslide and a huge margin in the House and Senate. The Democrats really could have made some major changes.

And they could have pushed for ENDA. If we're not going to get it before the midterm, its ridiculous to believe we would get it after the midterm when the Dems are expected to lose seats and Obama is running for re-election. I sincerely doubt we will get it during Obama's four year term at all.

And if the GOP takes over the House or (heaven forbid) White House .... it's will never happen.

Chitown Kev

@Former COGIC

I wouldn't say that Obama had a "historic landslide" but I would say that he had a FDR-like mandate for change. And like you, I am mildly surprised that they haven't even tried and I am greatly disappointed.

Then again, you have those like wondermann, who are satisfied with anything and will come back with all of the Obamabot talking pts. once the President signs this BS Aetna/BCBS reform bill.

Dallas Cowboy

@ Wondermann: "I can wait, if they do it right"

I'm glad you "can wait". But we're not talking about "doing it right", the issue here is Democrats are afraid of losing their seats and don't want to vote on ANYTHING AT ALL.

If there are precious few votes for ENDA now...what will happen after mideterms when Democrats lose seats? And the president begins re-election campaign? Do you honestly believe we would be able to vote on ENDA. I'm not even talking about Dont Ask Dont Tell.

Some of you Obama apologists really need a dose of reality. He's not been a great leader at all, the Congress has short changed us as always and given the way health care was a mismanaged, it looks like Dems will lose seats. If they lose seats after 2010, how would be have the votes for ENDA or even DADT even if they wanted to vote on gay rights. Which of course Obama, Pelosi and Reid don't.

This was the year to move.

Derrick from Philly

I'm a little surprised at Pelosi view on ENDA --if she's including that legislation on her "not this year" list. To me, it's the least controversial of the "gay rights" issues.

Yes, I thoguht we'd have a stronger push for progressive issues by this White House and Congress. For a while I let go of my cynicism and let idealism take hold. I'm through with that foolishness.

Democrats move to the center when they are in power, because they believe the country is basically conservative. They're timidity is frustrating to many in their "base"--but we've been through this before. It's nothing new.

Former COGIC

@ Wondermann:

What can you wait on? For hundreds of more black transgender women to be denied jobs at McDonalds? Or for hundreds of more black lesbians and gay men to discharged under DADT, since we are targeted the most?

Do you even know what you are talking about? The House and Senate are loudly saying they will NOT vote on gay rights in 2010. Do you think they will with numbers down and midterms? Or do you think they will in 2011 when Obama is running for re-election?


It's really disgusting how some of you blindly repeat these Obama talking points and could care less about the community. We're screwed. smh

Now, please tell us when do you think the Congress will vote on ENDA. 2010? Middterms. 2011 or 2012? Reelection. I'm not even going to guess after 2012, some of you can think Obama is a shoe-in, I don't any more.

Faison

What ChiTown, COGIC and Derrick said.

You go Derrick!

Moore

The biggest problem with the Democratic Party under Obama, and this began during the primaries, was that Obama and the Dems always throw their base under the bus. They keep ignoring the people who elected them to pander to the Republicans. It makes absolutely no sense. Some supporters (Wondermann et al) keep finding ways to rationalize the disappointment but in the end, your base is supposed to always be there for you. You cant just keep kicking us in the teeth and assume we have nowhere else to go and tell us that Republicans, who DID NOT support the president, are more important. Thats bs.

Say what you want about the GOP but they understand base-driven politics. Maybe that's all they understand, but they NEVER insult and throw their base under the bus. Democrats do it all the time.

Now, going into midterm elections, the Republicans are revved up and the Dems are very apathetic. I'm not donating anything to the party, only to candidates who have supported me and my policies. I'm not volunteering, making phone calls, GOTV...none of what I did in 2008 for Obama. This has been some bs.

Trey

Well in 2012, I'm not sure that there will be a republican with enough progressive appeal to win, but I do believe that Obama's re-election win will be MUCH closer. Dems will probably lose some seats, but everytime it happens (because like someone said: it's happened before) it's an opportunity for us to regroup and come back stronger. We now have gay people running for offices and some are winning. I'm looking for great things to come from people like Anthony Woods. We need more of our own people in positions of power and I'm encouraged to see that it's happening.

I think we have to keep in mind that just because the Dems are in power, they STILL HAVE TO PLAY POLITICS. I hate that, but it's true. They can't do everything that we think and know they should. It sucks, but it's just true.

Moore

Oh and let me say that there was no shortage of gays, especially black gays, who carried water for Obama and the Dems and kept saying we "should wait" on LGBT rights and not "offend" the Reublicans.

The mere existence of gay people offends Republicans. Obama's mere presence in the White House outrages the GOP. You saw they gave not ONE SINGLE VOTE to health care after he negotiated with them for months. It's not going to get any easier. Pass ENDA in 2010, we probably wont get a chance in 2011 or 2012.

Dallas Cowboy

@ Trey:

Dream on.
Unless they are in Maine or New York state, Republicans don't elect "progressive" Republicans.

And if you're admitting the Democrats will "probably" lose seats in 2010, then that means and even smaller majority and very unlikely to pass ENDA in 2011 or 2012.

So when is this going to happen?

And wtf is this pie in sky about "regrouping and coming back stronger"? I'm talking black LGBTs being denied jobs and fired from jobs, and ENDA not passing in the forseable (sp?) future. What are you talking about?

Oh and you can go fck yourself suggesting the Democrats should "play politics" and not work on our rights, or immigration or EFCA. Thats what they always do and that's what got us here. Are you suggesting they will pass ENDA or EFCA ... during a presidential election year? smh

Derrick from Philly

If criticim of Presdient Obama is always accompanied by harsh criticism of those of us who supported and voted for him, then expect us to defend ourselves and him (again and again and again). One can be disappointed in the President and the Democratic Party but still believe we made the right decision with our vote in 2008. He hasn't been a disaster (and for me, neither were Clinton or Carter--no matter what some f..kin' Republicans may say).

There some things that I've been disappointed in over this first year of his administration, but there are other things that I'm am happy (Justice Sotomayor, for instance).

Democrats aint gonna' always help you like they promise, but they aint gonna' go out of their way to hurt you like that other political party.

I'll vote for this sitting Democratic President in the Pennsylvania Primary of 2012 (unless I move to Hawaii with my Powerball money), and I'll vote for him against the Republicans in November of that year. No apologies here.

Dallas Cowboy

>>>then expect us to defend ourselves and him (again and again and again

That's exactly why we are this point.

Da' Realist One

"Democrats aint gonna' always help you like they promise, but they aint gonna' go out of their way to hurt you like that other political party."

Whoooooaaaaaa!!!!
Wait, Wait a minute?
We still talkin' about the Democratic party, right?

You mean the SAME Democratic Party that was supposed to pass Marriage Equality in New York; but yet 8 Democratic Senators voted AGAINST equality - in spite of the fact that many of their constituents gave money, time and EFFORT to help them get elected?

Is this the same Democratic party that has Senators who said they vowed to keep an "open mind" when it came to advancing Gay Rights, then turned right around and said something like;
"Hell, I never promised ya'll a DAMN thang"!

Is this the same Democratic party who was supposed to send emails, flyers, and lobby their Democratic legislators and voters in the state of Maine to vote on equality - but when it was discovered they didn't do anything of a sort they straight up LIED about what they really did to cover themselves?

Is this the same Democratic Party who valiantly touted health care reform and made this "their" issue during the election; but when it came down to the wire the ONLY way they could have gotten enough votes on the bill after being completely DESTROYED by the Republicans is to go to each and every Democratic Senator and quietly ask them under the table what "Hook Up's" they wanted in the bill so they would at least vote for it to make it look like they did something substantial within the first year of the Presidency?

Now, you have a the THIRD PERSON in charge of the country state that ANY issue pertaining to GLBT rights will be held off because ’hab mercy’ they should take a real stand and actually make PROGRESS in the country for the people who voted them in office to begin with.
OH NO! They can’t do that!

They have to make sure they pacify the conservative base first; because as we've seen, they’ve been KNOWN to play dirty politics - here AND overseas *coughs-UGANDA-coughs*

So let's make sure we take care of them because after all, THEY are they real voters that matter - those poor lil’ democrat voters can wait, or accept another “8 years of the same ole thang” (and how many times have we heard THAT before)
But hey, they don’t go out of their way to hurt you like that “other” political party.

Surely we aren’t talking about the same Democratic party are we? Otherwise, I need to know where is this other Democratic party you speak of, they sound like they just might do some thangs for us!

Greg G

"If criticim of Presdient Obama is always accompanied by harsh criticism of those of us who supported and voted for him, then expect us to defend ourselves and him (again and again).."

Then go ahead. It doesn't matter at this point because you just admitted its been business as usual with Dems and he's not giving the LGBT a fair shake. Now you're demanding people can't say they've been saying this all along? LOL

And I'm going to call BS on your "Obama supporter" theme. We ALL SUPPORTRED President Obama. It's a safe bet that NO ONE reading this blog voted Republican. Unfortunately, some of us are so beyond supporters but fans...and take him so personally that we support him versus our own interests.

Defend Obama again and again and again. Here's the cut: He's not defending you, sweety. He's not defending black folks that fiercely and sure isn't defending gays "again and again."

No one said anything about voting GOP or not supporting Obama in 2012. We're bellyaching and talking about how the White House and the Dems are not supporting gays. Again. And probably won't for the rest of the term. I'm sure 9/10ths of us reading this blog are voting for him again. But if it's too heavy for you, sit this one out. I've personally had enough of your sensitivity around the president and making demands so that you can feel comfortable criticizing him.

Too many black LGBTs gave Obama and the Democrats a pass and never asked for anything in return for their vote. That's real talk.

Dallas Cowboy

>>>"Democrats aint gonna' always help you like they promise, but they aint gonna' go out of their way to hurt you like that other political party. "

You might want to look at the votes of the New York senate on marriage and transgender rights.

Better yet...let's talk about those federal lawsuit against DOMA that Obama keeps defending.

Even better yet...let's talk about that new lawsuit against OPM, headed by a gay man John Berry, who repeatedly denied health benefits to a lesbian federal employee.

Rod when will you post the OPM case? I'm surprised you haven't there were new developments over the weekend ...

Anthony in Nashville

@ Trey,

I agree that you have to play politics.

To me, that means enacting your agenda when you're in power, not watering everything down to pull 1 or 2 votes from the other party. When George W Bush was president, I didn't see Republicans being so worried about being "bipartisan."

For everyone disappointed in Obama and the Democrats, maybe we should consider the possibility that they never intended to govern any differently than they've shown and only mentioned progressive ideas to get people to vote. Now, that's some top notch pimp game!

Randall

What Anthony in Nashville said.

"Not watering everything down to pull 1 or 2 votes from the other party."

But they totally watered down healthcare and got ZERO votes from Republicans. Zero votes after all these months.

And Anthony is absolutely right. You enact your agenda when you have power. The Democrats won't have the power next year. If they lose seats in 2010, they definitely will have even less power.

I dont even want to start thinking about 2012. I'm just royally upset that Dems and Obama squandered away this opportunity to enact ENDA, which we need sooo badly in this country. The McDonalds story showed that.

Bush enacted his legislation with 50 vote and 51 vote majorities. Democrats have super majorities and still cant get things done.


Tarion

maybe we should consider the possibility that they never intended to govern any differently than they've shown and only mentioned progressive ideas to get people to vote. Now, that's some top notch pimp game!

The game is to be sold, not to be told.
Now where my votes at beotch?
You know its hard out here for a pimp!

Derrick from Philly

" Now you're demanding people can't say they've been saying this all along? LOL"}

No, you can say whatever the f...k you want to say, and I'm going to respond to it. I don't try to tell other fagg...people what to say. . My point is when you criticize gay people who suppport the President what the do you think you will achieve? Animosity and hatred between gay people is what you may end up with? Is that what you gay activists want?

As far as the Democratic Party hurting people: those folks in DC who voted for marriage equality last week--what party did they belong to?

Which political party made it possible for old people not to have to beg in the streets, or go without medical care? Which political party forced affirmative action on a resistant country during the 1970s and 80s--and how many black folks owe their jobs to those efforts?

Yeah, over the last 70 years I do believe that there has been a difference between the two political parties and how they see the role of the central
government.

"He's not defending you, sweety. "

You don't decide that, Greg G. Don't be so presumptuous. I don't try to tell you what is good for you. What you think are the important issues may not be same for me and many other black gay people.

Intolerance can become one the worst traits of many activists in any movement.

Bill

Is she really that afraid to lead? Is she really afraid of the GOP who may splinter into the GOP and the Tea Party?

Trey

@ Dallas Cowboy. I hear u, but I'm tellin u what it is: They play politics and according to Washington standards, that's how politicians survive. They may be the majority right now, but at the end of the day, they are INDIVIDUAL politicians who want to be re-elected. When they actually do what we've elected them to do and push our agendas, they are no longer considered politicians. They're called activists. And activists unfortunately, usually aren't taken seriously enough to make a huge dent.

Greg G

Derrick:

We're all "gay people who supported the president". Some of us only want the president and the Democrats to job the promised to do and were elected. We gave them our votes and money and...gasp!...want some results.

I'm not even going to have 'what issues are important' convo w/ you. If LGBT rights are not important to you, then why are you in this thread? Earlier you said they were. And here's a newsflash: Some people, politicians included, can work on a few issues at once. Like the president working on health care, climate and defense all last week.

I was gay before Obama and will be gay long after he leaves office in 2016, knock on wood. But I have to look out for my own self and my community. I have never trusted a politician will know better than me or my community what's best for us.

Gerrell

"Is she really that afraid to lead? Is she really afraid of the GOP who may splinter into the GOP and the Tea Party? "

Umm, I don't think Pelosi is operating in a vaccum here. She gets her marching orders, too.

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