A treat last night on The Mo'Nique Show. The veteran R&B singer Miki Howard discussed her new autobiography Always Had Shoe and performed her fabulous hit "Love Under New Management." Howard talked about growing up in gospel music and the black church and "the first thing"" she wanted to discuss: Gays in the black church. Rough transcript as follows.
MIKI HOWARD: "One good thing I want to talk about is the gay aspect to our church. We don't talk about it in our community. I grew up in James Cleveland's church in LA and it was gay back then, really gay. And we weren't didn't know that people thought was bad, that outsiders thought that was bad. So that's one thing we talk in the church and explore, and how I came to be me."
MO'NIQUE: I applaud you for addressing this ...because people don't want to talk about it and for not judging because most times we run from it.t (TO CAMERA) And for all of our gay brothas watching, we love you this is the no judgment zone. You are always welcome and you are always loved. If you're in the church and you're gay, God is not judging you. Be who you wanna be."
MIKI HOWARD: "They gave us encouragement. They taught us how to walk"
Howard referenced the late and legendary gospel singer Rev. James Cleveland, who was closeted and his 1991 death has been attributed to HIV/AIDS.
Earlier in Mo'nique's "no judgment zone", she gave a shout-out to lesbians. "Sistahs, if you are laying next to your man right now give him a kiss. Or next to your woman.. no judgments here, as long as you got somebody."
It's about time someone mentioned on national television that the black church and black gospel music are "really gay" and they should not be ashamed. There are so many talented black gay men in the church and black gospel music. Unfortunately many are told otherwise and most believe they should remain (semi) closeted. The segment begins at 27:30. The oh-so-fabulous and very gay friendly Brian J. White is the guest in the prior segment. Via Clay Cane watch it AFTER THE JUMP ...
That segment was wonderful.
I LOOOOOVED MIKI and LOVED IT.
BRAVO! Tell it like it 'tis...
Posted by: Findley | 27 January 2010 at 11:22
[DELETED AND BANNED. AGAIN. DO YOU STILL THINK YOU HAVE A "RIGHT" TO LEAVE COMMENTS AT THIS BLOG, HON? -RM]
Posted by: Anti-believer | 27 January 2010 at 11:26
Anti-believer: thats the scariest for our community, gay men who are just regular guys. They don't know how to deal with that. But you have to give Monique and Miki credit for at least bringing up the subject. And the queeniest show I've seen all month was BET's Celebration Of Gospel. LOL
Posted by: Dluv | 27 January 2010 at 11:44
Oh that hateful Miss Anti Matter is back. BOO. And to come and try to rain on some positivity. So sad and trifling...
Moving on...I am so glad that Miss Mo'nique knows the true meaning of church, baby. The true meaning.And so many of these black women say 'i don't judge" and they are judging left and right. And they think gay men should be seen and not heard. Thank you!
Posted by: Dallas Cowboy | 27 January 2010 at 11:58
Miki grew up in James Cleveland's church? Honey, now wonder she has always been down for us!
Posted by: Saadiq | 27 January 2010 at 12:00
I grew up in the black church and the Church of God in Christ. There are queens in glass closets everywhere. They 'allowed' to sing in the choir, have some responsibility and believe they some stature in the church and the community.
Of course they are not allowed to talk openly about being gay and their sexuality..its the biggest Don't Ask, Don't tell. And of course they are regularly blasted from the pulpit and told they are going to hell. The queens applaud and clap too.
It's a disgrace. The only bigger disgrace are all those church queens who willingly go those churches.
Posted by: Former COGIC | 27 January 2010 at 12:26
Free country or not, Miss Anti & G.H. Weekes, if the owner of the blog chooses to remove your BS, its b/c they own this blog and you don't!! Go start your own and then you can do as you see fit! That's the beauty of free speech and ownership!
I see that assholism is on the rise....
Posted by: CC | 27 January 2010 at 12:40
I absolutely adore Mo'nique and I love the bold Ms. Howard.
Why does this "Anti-believer" continue to comment? This is not he place to spread self-loathing or hatred. UGH.
Posted by: The Truth | 27 January 2010 at 12:43
@ Anti Believer and GH Weeks:
We're trying to talk about gays in the black church and hate speech coming from the pulpit. If you're not adding to the discussion, or been asked to leave, why do you try to keep coming back and leave hostile comments and want to argue with Rod? Obviously he doesnt want you for a very good reason because both of you sounds very CRAZY.
If you so much to say, start your own blog. Everyone else can leave comments and we play nicely even when we disagree. And I wholly co-sign for banning, because whenever he does it, its obviously for the right reason.
Some of these black queens are pathetic. They have nothing to say, never want to fight for our rights, and want to claim they have a 'right' to comment. Anonymous internet trolls have no rights.
Posted by: Former COGIC | 27 January 2010 at 12:46
That sister has it going on and speaks her mind and could care less about what others think, thank you Monique for keep it real, all the time!
Posted by: Luther | 27 January 2010 at 12:56
Damn, let me go to Miki's website and buy some music. Love the support.
Posted by: Otis | 27 January 2010 at 13:00
Former COGIC, is right. I went to a COGIC church for a few years where one could not count the gay men alone. There were some gay women, such as myself, but they were not as visible as the more...obvious gay men. I recall going to black gay pride in my area and I was afraid I was going to see one of the more obvious gay men from my church and they would go back and snitch on me. Low and behold I did see a member of the church, but it was someone I never thought I'd see at a gay club, and he was getting it in too!
I noticed that this love seemed to only be extended to the gay brothers. What about the gay sisters? Don't get me wrong I know this is a gay men's site and the brunt of the hate is felt by our brothers but gay women get it too. They need love and acceptance too. Gay women are shunned, preached against and attacked as well. Gay men get it the worst, I will not deny that. But homophobia is extended to gay women. I've noticed there are straight women who are cool with gay men but hate gay women and vice versa. I'd say homophobia may be distributed differently but it is still distributed equally. If I have a straight male friend or even family who is ok with me but will turn into a rabid homophobe against a gay man, you better believe they will first get checked and then get left. I would never tolerate hate of any kind against anyone of the LGBT community and if someone has something against my gay brothers they have something against me, and they can expect a fight. I'd hope my gay brothers would do the same for their gay sisters, we're in this fight together. But hopefully this will start with these women excepting gay men and at some point we all will be excepted and love, that's all I want...
Back on topic, kudos to these two sisters for having enough intelligence, heart and humanity to show love to gays and for addressing this. I'd like to see the same come from others and one day it will. Mo'nique gave me another reason to respect her. This warms my heart, thank you for posting this Rod :)
Posted by: dt | 27 January 2010 at 13:04
James Cleveland was closeted???
I attended some of his workshops in DC during the 70's and the things I observed were very open to public view.
Posted by: rxntx | 27 January 2010 at 13:11
I agree with RXNTX,
Rev. Cleveland wasn't closeted: THE CHURCH WAS! They just didn't want to talk about it and that is why he went on to pastor his OWN!
Brava to Miki THE TRUTH Howard for just being so frank about gays in the church AND the state of the music industry and why there are so few artists after 30-35 in the INDUSTRY: The labels can't "control" them anymore and the stories of artists tearing UP offices are legendary They can tour and make money, but recording is often for children or people who will to sell out unless they fight for control!
BRAVA INDEED! She was "throwing bombs and s***" indeed!
Posted by: TheRevKev | 27 January 2010 at 13:30
Thanks Rod for posting this. It's good to see positive things like this, especially two CONGREGANTS (albeit celebrities) speaking out and positive. The black church is far from monolithic, even within congregations.
@dt- I hear you and...I think that, yes, the homophobia does come after women in a very different way (depending on whether a man or a woman is tossing it). I think that men get it more (especially in the church) simply because of the sexism in the church (of whatever race or ethnicity)and Biblical definitions of what a man is supposed to do and be.
Posted by: Chitown Kev | 27 January 2010 at 14:01
loved this! thanks for posting.
Posted by: Homoneurotic | 27 January 2010 at 15:01
"I grew up in James Cleveland's church in LA and it was gay back then, really gay"... Ain't THAT the truth!:) As are a lot of black churches...Brava to both these women -- and to 'dt' -- for speaking up and spreading love.
Posted by: reggieh | 27 January 2010 at 15:55
As usual more criticism from rod on black gay men who choose to attend a church of their own liking. These men may have deep family ties to churches. Not all black churches are homophobic. And what is with the finger snapping? Sorry, not impressed
Posted by: HU | 27 January 2010 at 16:07
Chitown Kev, I will not dispute you on that, guys do get it worse. With women it's like "she just needs to find the right man and that will get her back on the right track". That is just part of the homophobia a gay woman would face, the having to be "shown the way" back to decency by a man because women need a man to lead them in the eyes of traditional church. But with the brothas, MAAAAAAAAN gay men get thrown all up in through hell ten times. These are both unacceptable forms of homophobia that need to be fought.
@reggieh, as a gay woman I feel it's my duty to stand up for the LGBT community as a whole because I 1) belong to that community myself and 2)because as Dr. King so eloquently put it "injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere". Gay men are in this struggle for LGBT rights and equality right along with me so I must stand up for them otherwise I cannot truly call myself your sister. And we need for or gay brothers especially my black gay brothers to do the same for Lesbians. I especially feel the need to support black gay men because as far as I see it they have it the worst, a black man in this society that still wants to see and treat you like a "thug, criminal, savage, no good dog" which you know you are not and a gay man seen by your own people as sick, nasty unnatural when I've seen plenty of loving relationships between black gay men (and gay women)that is nothing short of loving, beautiful, spiritual and totally natural. You're damn skippy I got your back! :)
Posted by: dt | 27 January 2010 at 16:38
Well I guess Mo'Nique has changed her tune a bit! I remember seeing her at a Comedy Show when I was visting relatives in Baltimore. She was going on and on about that "Gay Sh!t"! Maybe it was just jokes and NOT how she really feels.
In any case glad she is singin a different tune these days!!
Oh and I LOVE her work in Precious and she deserves all the awards!
Posted by: Isis | 27 January 2010 at 16:47
@ dt: You can best believe I have your back- I have 2 sisters that are both lesbians (all 3 of us are gay--and OUT) and we stand strong in that we will not tolorate anyone who is a one-sided homophobe of ANY kind.
Posted by: CC | 27 January 2010 at 16:48
@isis: i also remember some of mo'nique's questionable comments about "homasexuals." i bet that working with lee daniels and sapphire while filming "precious" was a real education for her. ain't no turnin' back! good for her and ms. miki howard!
@otis: that's right - let's buy some music!!
Posted by: brohemian | 27 January 2010 at 17:36
Appreciate the honest effort that Mo and Mikki make but in Mo's comments I still sense some buffoonery and stereotyping of who we are as black gay men. We are not all queens
Posted by: www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1292868878 | 27 January 2010 at 22:09
Opps I meant "accept" and "accepted", not "except", my bad, I wasn't paying attention
Posted by: DT | 03 February 2010 at 11:18