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25 March 2011

Comments

TheRevKev

WOW.

BRAVO.

This is a remarkable launchpad for a powerful conversation that WE HAVE GOT TO HAVE IF WE INTEND TO, WANT TO, SCREAM TO, REACH TO BE MORE THAN WE ARE!

"WOULD YOU DATE YOURSELF?"

Derrick from Philly

Very interesting and very pertinent to many issues facing Black Gay men (ALL Gay men)--issues about self-esteem, social and sexual matters, romantic possibilities, friendships or lack of, etc.

It is possible to not be sexually attracted to those like you and yet not hate those like you. It depends on how well you accept yourself. I never hated the term "queen", but I know so many Gay guys (with feminine ways) who did, and they tended to be ones who were repulsed by other feminine acting guys.

No, no Gay man should be referred to as a "queen", or fem, or spoken about using female pronouns IF he is offended by these aspects of certain Gay cultures (Fems, Old School Queens, Drag Queens, Transwomen, Ball Children, ect.-- we use that kind of language)

But my point is that being fem but not attracted to other fems does not mean you hate yourself or hate other Gays. It depends on how well you accept yourself, and whether you have an honest view of yourself.

Great poem, provocative video, wonderful young men participating in the production.

CAJIVA

I think the whole hyper masculine thing is so over exaggerated. They are a lot of guys that like men with some extra suger in the koolaid. I feel people concentrate on the whole hyper masculine/nobody wants fem guys cause it creates a story when its really not that serious

Whats wrong with a queen or fem guy that wants a more masculine guy then themselves? NOTHING! I think its the most sexiest thing. I think two queens (bulldaggas yuk) or two butch men together are so like so not sexy. I know its traditional and on the verge of mirroring straight couples but like Ms Tyra says "SO WHAT!"

Also regardless of the fem/masc thing, why would anyone date someone like them self, i wouldn't. I'm more outgoing, funny, and the entertainer and having two people like that together is a recipe for disaster.

There is a reason opposites attract, so lets keep it that way.

Troy

But isn't the act of masculinity just that -an act and the perceived inevitibility of being femme a mere sheer layer the real person. Who makes these 'rules' and why should anyone waste their time following or getting caught up in them. If you can look back and laugh you have won the battle, my friend, And that's what it takes to be a man.

Logan

This is a LONG over-do conversation we need to be having. Thank yo Rod for bringing this to light

Cleon

Hi Bois, It's always nice to see people you know involved in a thought provoking project! What is always interesting to me is how one-sided discussions are when typically only young people insights are focused on (Yes, you did have someone over 40 there). It' like after turning 40 "in the life", you have no opinion, no value,no words of wisdom to pass on to young gay men. Generally, how men think and what they do in relationships when they're young differs from when they are older. There's value in being older, experience! Through life's experience older gays tend to have a clearer picture to see in the lyrics of Jennifer Hudson "where you at!" (Now some would argue growing older doesn't mean you're wiser but by the same token being younger doesn't me you're a dummy. I'm speaking generally. When I was growing up my grandparents and people around their age had a lot of wisdom to share.)


The topic "Would I date myself?" has been an on-going question asked for years in some of the black gay male discussion groups throughout ATL. For the most part a high percentage of the gay male audience has been single. You have those who answer yes or no to the question "would I date myself?", however, they both groups (the yes & no's) continue to remain single. What does that say about the question. (rhetorical question)


Besides personal preferences and being attracted to we are attracted to there's still a lot of insecurities and trust issues going on with a lot of black gay men here in Atlanta. Here's my point in addressing Yolo's poem, it's doesn't matter whether you're a Top, Bottom, Versatile, masculine, effeminate, young or a man of season, if you are still carrying baggage, still have a controlling personality, still find yourself being possessive, continue to be insecure or have low self-esteem, how can you honestly be the man you want! The question is simple, the answer is a lot harder when it comes to meeting eye to eye with the question!

Black Pegasus

YES! This conversation is indeed long overdue!
I've often wondered about this as well. When I see so many effeminate men gathered in social spaces, I ask myself: "Who are they attracting in that club"? It's obvious Fems aren't "sexually attracted" to other Fems, and far too many Masculine Gays are literally disgusted by Fems, so the question is valid: "Are you the Man you want"?

Mother Nature is a Evil Bish! She knew the parodox that would exist once a Femimine Grown Man is Sexually Attracted to a Masculine Grown Man...What a wonderful experiment this thing called Life can be - I Love it! lol

The Truth

Bravo. Great Poem. Great video.

Love Yourself!

MDS

yum yum

Procrastination_Xtravaganza

Yes yes and yes! This video is awesome and asks a great question that warrants so much more discussion. RevKev keep this in mind for the next Passions?

I was gonna try to play devil's advocate here, but damn that game would go into overtime before it even started! Lotta jaded people in this b!tch! Okay just one inning...

Cleon, I agree that older gays, older people in general often have much more wisdom and a different viewpoint on social issues. I'm not sure, are you faulting the creator of the video for not being more age inclusive? I'm assuming that Yolo Akili involved his friends and acquaintances, who generally fall around his age range. Rather than criticizing that, you should make a response video highlighting older people's POV. Also, in daily practice, open yourself to forming cross-generational platonic relationships, so that going forward, maybe his friends will be more varied in age. A big part of why young gays keep making the same damn mistakes as their predecessors is that there's no damn mentors! The old excuse was that everyone over 40 died of AIDS - clearly is isn't the case. What I do see however is older folk in the old people's bar, and young guys in the kiddie club, and never the twain shall meet. We need to start forming spaces where non-predatory mentoring can occur, there are so many people out there looking for guidance, give it to them!

Toddy English

I don't think this conversation is long overdue. I think it is way over DONE.
I believe gay men should be allowed to simply be themselves...eschewing the ACT. Is anyone truly hyper-masculine or super duper fem? Or are they merely playing a role to mask who they really are?
Just my thought.

Cam

POWERFUL stuff!! A conversation I haven't heard brothas discuss much! Or, if ever!!! I can HONESTLY say that I AM the kinda brotha I'd want. Although I acknowledge the changes I want to make!!!

Diva1961

I really like this question/conversation. I can say I am indeed the type of guy I would date. The only question is "Is the perception of myself I see the true reality of who I am, or is it who I think I am?"

kevjack

I think this is an excellent discussion to have. Gay men have a very, very complex relationship with masculinity and femininity. Underneath all of this is a fundamental insecurity that all men have when dealing with the masculine ideal that society presents (straight guys struggle with this stuff but in different ways).

The real story is that we need to encourage men, all men, to be comfortable with who they are. Too many guys are wasting their lives putting on fronts and trying to live up to an image of gay-masculine-feminine-queen-club kid-thug whatever else someone else's ideal is. We have the right to be complex and contradictory individuals. That is part of being human.

I do have one quibble with the question asked, however. The real question is not whether we would date ourselves or not. The real question is whether we want to be involved with another complex, inconsistent, multidimensional person or not. Anyone who says they want to date an "X" type of man is inherently limiting himself to a one-dimensional person.

The real quesation is why we choose to see other people (and ourselves) in such limited dimensions at all.

MW09

This was a great piece! I truly enjoyed it!

Arick Buckles

This piece raises great question for self. I totally enjoyed viewing this!

elg

"I do have one quibble with the question asked, however. The real question is not whether we would date ourselves or not. The real question is whether we want to be involved with another complex, inconsistent, multidimensional person or not."

I agree with the aforementioned statement.

I would add, however, that fem men must ask themselves can they realistically expect to get much more than purely casual sex out of a typical so-called masculine man?

Is this masculine man typically going to take you anywhere in public? Is he typically going to introduce you to his family and friends?

If you have a major life crisis is your masculine guy typically going to help you get through it? Or are your fem friends, who you dismiss sexually, more likely to help you deal with your problems? And if this masculine man can't or won't help you deal with a crisis can you really say that you are in a relationship?

I think that fem men should think about these questions and answer them carefully as you decide "Are you the kind of man you want"?

jewels@yahoo.com

This is an EXCELLENT post. So good to see gay brothers talk about something besides sex and hooking up. One thing I didn't see mentioned here is we do ourselves a GREAT disservice by knocking fem bros because no matter how many sub cultures we have within the gay community, we are ALL STILL mistreated by many in the straight black community. When I see the gay men on Real Housewives of Atl, at first I was stunned like "who are these hideous queens wearing pumps and purses?" Then I realized they are actually deserving of MORE credit then these fake ass 50 cent thug gay men who go to gay bars to hold up the wall with a shitty attitude as if someone is supposed to honor them (then as soon as the latest Beyonce record comes on they squeal and run to the dance floor shaking their asses and the tide TOTALLY turns. When you really think about it what does it say about us when we go after men who hate themselves?

bartonhughes

Great piece! Akili is carrying torch left by filmmakers Marlon Riggs, Thomas Allen Harris, K. Brent Hill, etc. on issues of identity as GBMs.
Although, Harris is still doing work.
Glad to see this generation expressing and examining their roles.

The comments to this entry are closed.

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