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07 July 2011

Comments

Lamont

very very thorough report. imma watch all these videos once i get home. but what a surprise, the victim is a college student, not some street thug or aimless kid.

TheRevKev

What's intriguing about this incident is going to be how the WHITE LGBT COMMUNITY handles the conversation about RACE AND THE COMMUNITY because this is ALL LGBT. This isn't some "OTHERS" coming from outside. THE CALL IS COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE, though the whites of Halstead might indeed be intimating that "THE OTHERS" came to their space. The proverbial LINE IN THE SAND of Black vs. White gays is so sad and so pervasive that we MUST have the conversation.

Docfromdablock

I think it's More of an age/class issue most of the girls loitering on
Halsted are 17-24 with no id or no money to pay for drinks u don't see late 20s early 30s black professional men fighting and acting out when they visit "up north"

nuneuro

Sadly, Chicago remains one of the most racially segregated cities in the US. And Boystown even more so. The two guys that shot the video are the "status quo" for Halsted Street. IMO Boystown has never been friendly to people of color. I find it interesting that in the 15+ years I had been going to Sidetrack, I've noticed maybe three black bartenders in all that time (and I think it is now down to one). I agree w/ RevKev, this shines an ugly light on a part of town that can no longer blame "gaybashing" as a reason to keep the area "safe" from "unwanted elements". The thin veil of diversity in Boystown just got torn off.

King Drive

Cosigns Rev Kev and Noneuro.

The summer obviously is bringing more people out, but the simple fact is that this area historically never had many black visitors or residents. If you saw black folks, it was usually random couples and the usual sprinkling of SQs.

There are more blacks in Boystown now and the neighborhood is freaking out. Some are loud, some are groups, but most are not. But just seeing black faces disturbs many people.

Even the SQs are in freak out mode over these so called "hoodrats" and "ghetto" kids ... knowing darn well they grew up on the south or west sides themselves. Trust!

The other issue is that no one is talking to these young people. People are talking AT them. If they are standing under your window, politely say, "Hello. I know you are out having fun, buyt we're trying to sleep up here. Thanks .. and love your shoes, hun!"

Jewels

Racism should be addressed in the gay community. I lived in Atlanta for a while and I can tell you I experienced more racism from white gay men then I EVER have from white straight men. I live in LA now and there are no bars of places to go for black gay men anymore except to West Hollywood and they always know how to run the black patrons away, that techno music. We are to take some of the blame for this too. I have to admit, whenever I have gone to a white gay bar it is rare if ever I see white gay men fight. In Bulldogs in Atlanta it was almost an everyday thing. In addition, we will settle for the most filthy, urine smelling, smokey dingy bars that serve us out of plastic cups but you go into the white gay bars and they have the filthy bars AND upscale. Finally, when I have gone to white gay bars the men are very bubbly and having a good time. In a black gay bar brothers stand up against the wall serving tude while emulating thug dl boy culture. Any of us who are old enough to use the bathroom ourselves knows the kind of dl men we have fantasized about would not be caught DEAD in a black gay bar.

ThatRealTea

Reminds me of Camac St in Philly, alot of queens dancing and a bunch of trade/DL boys standing around. It wasnt even a club, but a daily house party.

How are we supposed to have our own resources for LGBT people, as hateful as Black people can be? You cant put a lgbt youth center for people of color in the ghetto, we would be getting bashed left and right,aswell as robbed.

I bet if it was a group of White gays walking through Boystown causing a disturbance they wouldnt care, the fact that they are of color changes everything. Black lgbt are alienated out of their own community with violence, and the White folks dont want them there either. You cant even hangout on 13th street without being harassed by the cops.

If you dont want to deal with the commotion then dont move into the apartment above a gay bar! It is expected to have some noise in the city, move to the suburbs if its a problem for you.

ThatRealTea

Its sad how the White gays always want to objectify us for our bodies, but turn us away at the club, or call it a "disturbance" when we pump down the street! What a very selfish group, that is why I only date Black and Latino men.

ThatRealTea

Whites have the nerve to get mad when we move into their neighborhoods, but nobody says jack about how they gentrify our communities and move us OUT! Raise the rent so you cant live there anymore! They want everything for themselves!

Account Deleted

It's extremely disappointing how segregated everything in the LGBT community is to the point of music preference and clubs and neighborhoods. All this does is put me further in the closet because it's so hard to trust anybody with LGBT issues or anyone being a Puerto Rican LGBT youh turning 21. There is lack of empathy coming EVERYWHERE. I'll just keep to myself and stick to this blog. We're supposedly living in more tolerant and progressive times but it seems so many to this day still have their head up their asses.

Racism aside, what excuse do OUR respective communities aside from not stepping up to help us. I'm not talking about the LGBT but the general BLACK and LATINO communities. If they're so concerned with the racism coming from the White gay men, they'd figure it's puts GAY Latino and Black men in a uncomfortable situation. Some of us do not have that luxury of putting race or sexuality before the other one. We keep hearing about the continued marginalization about Latino and Black you, but seldom is never spoken in the LGBT context. They keeping harping over and over how society refuses to dismiss them but they do the EXACT same thing to us. LGBT of color are just as much prone to bad schools, violence, racism (especially in the LGBT sector) and etc.... They simply don't want to acknowledge us. It's eye rolling to see what excuse there is for all this. It's so simple, really: THEY DON'T CARE!

TheRealTea:

I'll somewhat co-sign with your comments but the last one is hilarious because interestingly enough White Gay Men also move into gentrified neighborhoods much to the disdain of many communities of color. Funny, they acknowledge gay men when it comes to pastry queens, racism and everything else superficial and stereotypical and how "they" are moving in but my existence and others who are part of minority groups and are LGBT....Not so much.

And how the hell can folks chastise one group of making generalization while doing the same thing. Is there inconsistency to that logic.

Chitown Kev

"Whites have the nerve to get mad when we move into their neighborhoods, but nobody says jack about how they gentrify our communities and move us OUT!"

Thsi statement is not applicable to Boystown (it is applicable to many other places, though).

Boystown was never any sort of a black community, it's too far on the North Side of Chicago.

As I stated above, gentrification IS a factor in this but it's not white gays displacing black people...to an extent, it's straight moneyed whites pricing out (not-so-wealthy) white gays that is a much much bigger factor.

Chitown Kev

@Kevin Perez

Thank you.

Because I haven't seen anyone here really hold the black community accountable for this other than to say that the communities are too homophobic for the kids to remain there.

and ywes, I have observed first had the anger that some of these black LGBT youth have been taking out on white LGBTs in the area: I've seen a few verbal altercations as well.

I get the anger bit (been there and done that!) but that anger is misplaced...it should be directed at their own communities as well.

Former COGIC

Kev:

Who appointed you hall monitor of this blog on every post related to white vs black gay issues? It's not your place to tell people what statements "are not applicable". People can discuss what they want.

You spent all Wednesday and Thursday throwing spaghetti against the wall, discussing quite a number of issues that were NOT APPLICABLE to the Boystown situation, including drug activity "not" in Boystown, your "not" living in Boystown, your "not" being carded at clubs or hassled by police, STRAIGHT black youth in other neighborhoods who were "not" in Boystown, etc etc. Surely you are "not" going to try to tell people today what we need to focus on.

You make a good point about the re-gentrification of Boystown, which has happened in gayborhoods coast to coast. But you are not the hall monitor on all things in the larger gay community. And you do not need to run here to defend, explain, rationalize white gay men, blogs, etc. Many of us have just as much if not much more experience than you dealing with them.

Here's a hint, sweety. After you're done having cosmos with your white gay friends on Halsted, and after you've serviced a young "broke tradey" white boy, guess what they call you behind your back?

Chitown Kev

@Former COGIC


The general point is taken.

And I never said that there wasn't drug activity in Boystown (shit I've had more white gay men offer me drugs than they did when I was actually using them)

But Boystown is different from other gayborhoods in that it never was a black or ethnic minority neighborhood and I did need to point that out as well as trhe fact that this isn't as much of a "white gay" thing that the story seems...the gentrification of Boystown by straights is a part of the story.

And...I don't drink. Period. End of story. I rarely even go to bars.

"and after you've serviced a young "broke tradey" white boy, guess what they call you behind your back?"

and...I get similar shit from black folks anyway so...what the hell? As far as I am concerned, it's really not as if black folks (by and large) act any better or treat me any better. I've always been on my own pretty much and I get in where I fit in and race has little to do with that (thankfully!)

And that's the god honest truth and it's always been that way. Nothing self-hating about it.

Chitown Kev

@Former COGIC

You may be right. A pull up may have been in order here

[Although I don't drink and haven't for some time and I rarely go to bars on Halsted (or anywhere else)]

After you're done having cosmos with your white gay friends on Halsted, and after you've serviced a young "broke tradey" white boy, guess what they call you behind your back?

Nothing too different or less offensive from what black people have called me, to be perfectly honest. It's not as if blacks as a whole (gay or straight) ever made me feel all that welcome. No need to climb up on a high horse with that.

uptown125th

Seriously its time that we talk openly about the "divide" within the LGBT community. Yes there is blame to go around on both sides but you cannot brush off the fact that there is definitely a lot of racism within our LGBT community. Its time we had an open & honest discussion about it. Truth of the matter Chicago is segregated and as long as "those" people stay on the south & west sides than everything is ok. As soon as "they" infringe on our area than it becomes a problem. The only thing is some of "us" give the haters ammunition by acting a fool.

And yes some of "us" need to calm down on the fighting and other catty behavior that we indulge in. Although that's a small minority of black lgbt's who do that. Not the majority.

Dave

As a white gay observer/follower of this story from another state who has visited Boystown (and knows a few people who live in that general area, white and black,) my first thought is why no one seems to be talking about outreach? I get the selfishness of a lot of people of whatever stripe, but it bothers me that no one seems to want to have a conversation with these "kids" from "other" neighborhoods.

A comment above mentioned their anger, the lack of safety in their home neighborhoods, etc...and these are the things to address, right? Not who's black or white or purple. Reach out to these kids. Help. Sit down and talk to someone in friendship. (Not as "trade.") If, as the many stories I've read recently here on R2.0 and other Chicago media outlets are correct and a lot of the traffic is a result of LGBT minority youth visiting the Center and seeking the "freedom" of Boystown, should not the neighborhood's residents and people at the Center somehow be involved in a conversation with these people seeking guidance/escape? A conversation that covers not only those kids current situations, but positive ways to move forward in life that don't involve anger/violence/acting out.

From afar it seems that old racial fears, heavily underpinned by class issues, are distracting people from what is a core problem and issue that is often ignored around the country. I like to compare the urban LGBT minority youth plight as being similar to extremely rural LGBT kids. Imagine growing up in a hollow in southeastern KY and being a little effeminate and unable to suppress it? It'd be just as bad and you'd seek a same measure of comfort somewhere like Boystown if you could.

So sad. I'd want to invite all these youth into a room and say, "ok, we're here, we're listening, let's talk."

Bubbalicious

Former COGIC said: "Here's a hint, sweety. After you're done having cosmos with your white gay friends on Halsted, and after you've serviced a young "broke tradey" white boy, guess what they call you behind your back?"

Simply Brilliant! I LOVE IT, and LOVE YOU Former GOGIC!!!

Derrick from Philly

@Uptown 125 and Dave,

very thoughtful comments.

Uptown 125, you made a point that I was trying to get at the other day. And that is this age old unfairness of how cities are run--that there are certain neighborhoods that nobody cares about and other neighborhoods that must be protected. I know this way of administering cities is as old as urban centers themselves. But it's still wrong.

"They can do what they want to each other as long as they don't bring it here to OUR neighborhood" is still wrong.

When I lived in North Philly I was a victim of mugging, gay-bashing, sexual assault and gang attack-- what makes some other urban dweller in a more affluent neighborhood think those things can't happen to him? We all live in the city together. One neighborhood should not get any more police attention than another. (Very unrealistic, I know.)

CHI KEV,

you said you stopped drinking years ago. Now, I understand why you handle personal attacks as well as you do. I still drink...A LOT! I don't handle personal insults well.

I've been called "snow queen" by four people on this blog (3 of whom I still believe are the same ugly-azz b.tch).

I wondered if maybe the definition of "snow queen" had changed over the years. I thought it meant if you ONLY were sexually attacted to White men ONLY. Then I realized they were insulting me with that title simply because I was a regular poster on Towleroad.

Well, if I'm a snow queen then I must be a Mandingo Oriented Snow Queen. Because, you see, I've had more dark brown and jet black dicks than all these "race b.tches" up in here...more than their mothers did when they were out there whorin' their geetchie azzes on the street also.

Now, let's all be as respectful, mature and civil as I am....when sober. Otay?

Chitown Kev

"Because, you see, I've had more dark brown and jet black dicks than all these "race b.tches" up in here"

Hello?

I had one of those on the RedLine between Wilson and Adddison not a week and a half ago (but don't tell anyone.

but yeah, I dont get the snow queen accusations

The other guy

What grinds my gears about this sort of thing is that people act like folks don't have a right to be pissed that people are coming INTO their neighborhood from OTHER places and causing problems. I would be pissed too! I live in a certain touristy area of DC and I get tired of kids coming into my neighborhood and causing issues too. Wouldn't you? To call out the element that is bringing crime and issues into an area is not being racist or classist, it is being human. You all would be calling them everything but children of God if they came to your front door with that crap ... So why wouldn't these people? I am amazed at our community's capacity to let bad behavior slide and point fingers in all the wrong places. SMH ...

As far as the snow queen insult, ignore it - it's the first thing a bitter black queen says when you don't share his point of view on an issue like this.

Account Deleted

I will definitely concede with how Black and Latino men are objectified by the pastry queens (White Gays)....Yet, there those of us who only look at other men the EXACT same way. Oh sure, I love the prospect of sex and somewhat of a horn dog however, I don't think the act itself is fulfilling as having some connection to said person, emotionally at least. Others just want a quick romp and that it's it, sometimes at the risk of doing it without protection.

And we still see the continuing disparities of lack of representation of same sex couples of color. Especially Latinos and Blacks.

ThatRealTea

Please define "bitter Black queen," we all would like to know what you mean by that!

Anyway I never said Blacks were moving into BoysTown. The point was if Whites can gentrify Brooklyn and Philadelphia, they shouldnt give us the hell we get for moving into their neighborhoods and making it a home also. Gay or straight.

ThatRealTea

Commotion is apart of CITY LIFE, get over it and move your a$$es to the country side!

CAJIVA

Jewels you are so freakin on point exp when you say "I experienced more racism from white gay men then I EVER have from white straight men". I can actually say that I have more white STRAIGHT men that I'm friends with now then I ever had with gay men. The only two white gay male friends I have are the ones I have now. One of them are suspect so I gotta get rid of him soon.

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