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07 November 2008

Comments

Dimitri

Black people did not FUND the movement for Prop 8. And I'm sorry but the campaign against Prop 8 was run awfully. It all seemed to be one big rush to the finish line. Most people did not even know about it until DAYS before November 11. The wording on the ballot was tricky and the campaign was unorganized at the grass roots level. Blaming African-American people is just idiotic because it completely discounts those in the black community that did vote against it. And honestly, now that I've seen this reaction, I really don't feel much better about my vote against it.

Mr. WoW

If you didn't vote for Obama because he was the best person next time don't vote. If you voted for Obama because your gay and thought you were doing someone else a favor please fuck off. Californians don't have a problem with gays, we are very open out here. I just don;t understand where the compassion is from gays. You want christians to vote against their god and go against their up bringing so you can do what you already do. If marriage came from the church why not go to the church and educate the church goers? I bet a million bucks if gays called it something else with egual rights as a married couple as we know it would pass quickly. I love everyone gay, straight, any race but found it difficult to vote because i felt like i was telling GOD the he was a lie. I didn't see any no on prop 8 people in my area and I live in a gay artistic area in L.A. Fire you campaign manager, and don't even compare to blacks and other minorities that have been lynched, hung, sprayed with water hoses, bitten by dogs, etc. All this is gonna make blacks not wanna open up to something that should be discussed. So many black youngsters are gay and very open about it. Don't let them treat us like this, we are a loving people.

im black n gay

and gosh I'd hav to agree with that black thing.... my boyfriend voted yes on 8 himself (he's black)..... ioono whats up with people today... You're gay yet u don't want rights??? and then as my bf said "I have to vote according to God's will" blah blah.... why tha fucc u gay then is my next question....

i blame stupid confused people (lik my bf)... n homophobia inside of tha gay community... as well as homophobes period.... n "families" SMH!

blkbandit

"im black n gay" whats really sad is how you are thowing your bf under the bus.

CHASITY NICOLE

WHO CARES,LIVE THE WAY GOD INTENDED AND DEAL WITH IT. THE CHURCH HAS TO PRACTICE AND PREACH WHAT IS MORALLY CORRECT, IT IS NOT MORALLY CORRECT FOR TWO GROWN MEN TO BE HUMPING EACH OTHER (SICK)JUST LIKE IT IS NOT MORALLY CORRECT FOR US TO LIE,HOWEVER WE HAVE TO TRY TO LIVE OUR LIVES AS RIGHTEOUSLY AS POSSIBLE AND NOT PRETEND IS IS FINE OR OK, ITS NOT THANK GOD IN HEAVEN.....FOR THIS OUTCOME..I WILL BE PRAYING FOR YOU SINNERS WHO REFUSE TO ASK FOR FORGIVENESS.

William C

Chastity Nicole,

Get over yourself, dear. Your God must be pretty fcked up to have children like you

mcQLA

Oh man...As a white guy, I can't comment on what black gay folks do or don't do in the black community that enabled such support for Prop 8. I can say, that I've already reminded my fellow whites that aren't enough black people in the state to ensure passage of anything - uh, that's why black people are considered a minority (duh).

I can also say it's a damn shame that white people don't use (have?) more common sense when it comes to spotting a black person at a No on 8 rally. But some of what's coming back here doesn't show any more common sense than victimizing some gay or straight black person who had the nerve to show support at a No on 8 rally.

Let me assure black folks that contrary to what some black people believe, some of us white folks actually consider ourselves HUMAN before the rest of the labels get slapped on. I can understand why some black people would think otherwise, but just as I haven't met all the black people in the world, they haven't met all the white people in the world.

As far as race in this country goes, I don't think we're anywhere near being "post-racial" but I do think with a president as intelligent as B.H.Obama, we may have a shot at finally having some kind of a meaningful, national, discussion on race. We need one. Americans have got to figure this stuff out - not only because we have perhaps the best shot at coming to terms with it - but because we have been poisoning ourselves for too long.

To black people I would say, please, try not to take the awful, stupid, hurtful behavior of some especially dumb whites as indicative of how all of us feel, and I've already read some whites to filth. (And no, they weren't my friends. I don't do racists, life is too short.)

And Andrew Sullivan is an extremely foolish, limited individual who was not even born here and hence, has no idea what he's talking about half the time. He is, however, very good at knowing which white, rich, ass to kiss and when, and so, he's been designated (for all of us! black people too!) as the "Official Spokesman for the Gays" by the mainstream media. I doubt I'm any happier than anyone who reads this about that. (I'd love that paycheck.)

I'm aware that I can't know everything about how it feels to walk around in black skin in this country. And I'm sure I've unintentionally made non-white people uncomfortable with my own conversation at times. But then, I'm a master at making white people squirm, too. I can assure black people that if there is some "Preservation of White Privilege" club, I sure as hell haven't been asked to join, and if I was, I wouldn't. Simply because it's unfair, and dumb, and wrong.

And yeah, Matthew is right when he says us white gays expect old white people, and Republicans, and rightwing, white "Christians" to be ugly to all of us, but naively figure that black people of all ages would understand what it's like to be mistreated and would give us their support. If he was alive, Bayard Rustin might have something to say about that, but the larger point is that experiencing oppression doesn't necessarily make one more open-minded and hearted - in fact, as we have seen, it makes many people even more reactionary.

I guess what I'm saying is that just like black people are individuals, so are white people. And no one has the right to make anyone feel endangered or humiliated when they live their life in good faith. And we're all going to be plagued with assholes of all colors probably until Sarah Palin succeeds Obama as president, brings on the End of Days and we're all Left Behind.

Sterling M

I've been reading page after page in this sea of attacks. I've seen more than enough of what I agree and disagree with to say this:

I'm a biracial straight male living in San Francisco. I emphatically voted No on 8. If my wife were a citizen, she'd have joined me in also voting "no." I love and support all of my queer friends, and loathe to see them all so devastated.

At the same time, I live in one of the few predominantly black areas of a city that's hemorrhaging black folks left and right as it celebrates its diversity. Since hindsight is 20/20, I presumed that the No on 8 campaign was doing something in the black community. Looks like I was wrong.

I saw No on 8 protesters on the freeway offramps on the outskirts of the Castro, but saw nothing in the Western Addition, a neighborhood that's a mile or two up the road.

Frankly, the Yes on 8 team picked up the football and ran it in before No on 8 could realize it had fumbled. In Asian areas of SF, there was Yes on 8 information in myriad languages.

It's going to take that level of preparation, and a better angle, such as playing up the issues that partners face without legitimate marriage, in order to sink it into people's heads that this isn't a morality issue; it's a human rights issue.

When I lived in Atlanta, there were two Pride weekends, the mainstream (read: white) one in June, and Labor Day weekend, which a gay white co-worker once described as the weekend for "Negro Nellies" as I cringed. It's something I forgot about after I moved back to the Bay Area.

At least until this happened and LGBT people of color stepped up to decry what happened.

I don't believe that an exit poll of 240 people speaks for all black folks in California any more than I believe that the No on 8 campaign did a bang-up job reaching out beyond its comfort zone.

When my wife and I attend Pride celebrations next June with at least one or two out-of-town guests, I hope that amidst the numerous floats, there's even more reconciliation and reaching out to LGBT folks of color. It seems to me that the mainstream gay movement has some soul-searching to do as it licks its wounds.

But it's an emotionally charged time, and this fight is far from over.

Pepe Aguilar-Hernandez

i am outraged. white supremacy (and by this i mean the ideology that whiteness is superior to People of Color) is still alive in our society...across genders, sexualities, ethnic backgrounds, citizenship status, and educational level.

i believe the "repeal prop 8" movement needs some educational segments (preferably run by People of Color) to provide some emergency discussions on why there is no room for racism within their movement.

if the movement chooses to continue pointing fingers instead of challenging and resisting systems of oppression, then the movement will fall.

i have hope in a better tomorrow and a future free of white supremacy, heterosexism, patriarchy, xenophobia, elitism, and other systems of discrimination.

Michael

lol you gays are crazy im blk and i dont care about none of you guys or girls being gay lol im not gay i like pussy like im supposed too but how are you gonna blame a whole race for your gay ass problems 1st gay dude call me out my name im gonna fuck one of you homosexuals up

Liz

How in the hell do gay people expect to garner the support they need when they are acting like idiotic, ignorant, racist assholes and are acting no better than the KKK, throwing tantrums all over everywhere thinking that shi* is really going to move someone to your cause. Dumb asses!

And you really think you are going to get more black votes by talking down to them, even there are many black gays who were also seeking the passing of Prop 8?

And you try to connect your cause to minorities struggles just to be able to walk on the same side of the sidewalk, or go through the same door, or sit down anywhere on the bus after a long day's work, or have accessibility to quality education, or to vote, or to not live in fear of being lynched, or to wake up and not have a white cross burning on their lawns and wondering if they will be next, or to not be killed for looking at a white woman, when if you are white and gay, you, or your relatives, never had to worry about any of the above? At least if you are wrongly trying to jump of the black civil rights movement, you should follow their examples, like the examples of MLK, a young Jesse Jackson, a young John Lewis, Thurgood Marshall, Rosa Parks, etc, who fought for their cause in a peaceful, respectful manner, although they were beaten with chains, sprayed with fire hoses, bitten by dogs, jailed and killed to make a stand.

You persecute people who believe strongly that God does not agree with homosexuality, and that were really afraid to move that far against God. You are mad that some of these people really voted for God over you. Don't you realize that some people's faith put God before themselves and their families? So what in the hell makes you think that you are above God to them?

The people have spoken, just like they did in 1996 for Proposition 209 banning affirmative action for minorities on all levels. Now the People have again spoken banning same sex marriages.

Can you imagine how minorities felt when the majority turned their backs and voted against affirmative action in California?

I guess somehow they sucked it up and dealt with the people's choice because after 12 years, the Proposition 209 still stands. So rather than being self-loathing degenerates, homosexuals, man up and except your fate with Prop 8 like minorities did with prop 209.

TEvans

November 4th, 2008 proved to be a bittersweet day for me. One filled with great triumph and celebration … and also disappointment, hurt and anger.

A Black man in the White house is no minor feat; it is a historic accomplishment worthy of all the media attention and the deluge of accolades, praise and celebration, that have been virtually non-stop since the door to the last voting booth slammed shut and Mr. Obama was declared our President Elect.

I’d be telling a lie if I said I was anything other than proud of my Black people and what we were able to help get accomplished.

But unfortunately, as a Black gay man I am equally saddened, hurt and extremely disappointed by the Black community’s negative response to the gay-centered ballot initiatives that were up for vote in several states across the country. My Black people – yes they of infamous historic legal persecution — voted in overwhelming numbers to legally deny important rights to an entire segment of our society. Rights that they themselves hold dear and are allowed to practice.

And as I said, as a Black gay brother, that shit really hurt.

My bruised feelings, however, pail in comparison to my outrage at the lame excuses I have had to suffer from some of my fellow Black LGBT apologists in their attempts to explain away our community’s shameful response on election day.

I swear, If I have to hear one more Black gay person try to defend the Black mainstream community’s blatantly hypocritical, oxymoronic, equal-rights denying slap in the face to their gay brothers and sisters as a failure of WHITE PEOPLE (mainstream gay rights movement) to reach out to Black people, I am going to fucking scream until my tonsils burst into flame. It is an asinine argument. One whose purpose is geared more toward the exculpatory than the explanatory.

WTF?… Are we really expected to buy into the rationale that Black people are so unprogressive – so unsophisticated – that we require the intervention of White activists to explain to us the fundamental relevancy of fair and equal treatment for all under the law? Are some of us actually trying to persuade others to swallow the ridiculous proposition (no pun intended) that our community is so politically and racially simple-minded that we are incapable of empathizing and understanding the intrinsic harm that is done to our Black gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered family members & friends by discriminatory anti-gay laws if the popular face of the resistance is anything other than Black?… How can the argument that White gays and lesbians should be expected to shoulder the responsibility of reaching out, building bridges and educating the Black community, more so than the Black Gay community, be made with a straight face? What, are we too inept to discern for ourselves the need to stand up and let our dignity, love, pride and humanity be seen and have it speak to the conscience of our heterosexual brothers, fathers, sisters, mothers, and children; and impress upon them their moral obligation to protect and treasure our access to freedom and equality as well as their own?

These idiotic concepts are exactly what is implied by this, “because the face of the gay-rights movement is white, Black folks can’t relate to it,” farcical reasoning. It makes a joke of Black peoples’ ability to comprehend socio-political issues for ourselves, and it removes the onus for our detestable voting conduct and misguidedly – in this case – drops it at the feet of white gays….

Sorry, as a gay Black man that lives amongst my people everyday, I ain’t buyin’ it.

Many of the Black hands that pulled levers or punched cards on November 4th to deny rights to gays are attached to persons, persons who most likely know, love, and care for someone who is gay. Yet this did not prevent them from visiting upon their love ones the ultimate disrespect – you are not as good as me!… Our heterosexual Black family knows our heart, they know we exist, and they are familiar with our plight.

There is no excuse.

We have to own up to OUR shit on this one.

If our community doesn't "get it" on such a morally unambiguous issue as this, then I doubt any amount of intervention by White gay-rights activists is going to make much of a difference.

Besides being shamefully apologetic and extremely insulting to the intelligence of Black folk, the things-could-have-been-different-if-only-the-white-gay-rights-people-had-reached-out-to-the-black-community excuse is patently weak, because the number ONE reason Black people decided to vote to legally discriminate against gay people is their continued intellectual/emotional capitulence to archaic, primitive homo-hating religions en masse…. These intolerant, divisive, belief systems have done more to chain the mind and inhibit personal freedom throughout human history than anything else… And Black folk, unfortunately, can be seen in great attendance at such indoctrination centers … well, religiously.

If Black gays, or Whites for that matter, desire the fo’ real culprit of homo-oppression, they need look no further than the closest church, mosque, or synagogue…

10yrsafter

First of all, until today, I had no idea that the "gay" community was so prevalent within American society. Where have I been? Next, it's interesting that they would single out "blacks" when it has already been proven that, in taking out all "black" votes, the proposition would have passed anyway, which says that more whites and Latinos were responsible for Proposition 8. It is easy to forget that "blacks" only comprise 10-12% of the entire US population when they are seen in the media constantly as basketball and sports stars, hip-hop stars and rappers, thieves and felons, or entertainers/actors. Their faces on TV make it seem like their presence in America is more than it really is, which is the main reason what a white "gay" would target a "black" without even really knowing how they voted on the proposition.

10yrsafter

One more thing: let's hope this "ownership" society that Bush created takes a nosedive, for it is the real root of this whole conflict. If anyone believes that, by electing Barack Obama, "blacks" have been "given" a president somehow, you are sorely missing the point, because this man is supposed to be the president of America, not "black" America. Sure, I can understand why some whites feel that their numbers are in decline, but how is being "gay" helping that issue, in that "gays" cannot procreate? Then, why would they single out a group of people, when that group of people is the most underrepresented in the voter pool? The West Hollywood protests are symbolic of an uneducated ethos running through that community-namely that it will flourish through lawlessness, which is the ultimate reason to pass a proposition such as Prop. 8. If the "gay" community will not accept a vote the way it stands without aggressive, violent intimidation, a "Yes" vote on that proposition was the best way to go about tempering their actions and motivations, because their hostility can now be regulated, out in the open, once their acts are committed, if they are, in the near future. To those "gays" who are planning to attack supposed foes, I'd say to get ready for real en-masse retaliation by a community being unfairly targeted.

Nina

Just came across your blog in passing and wanted to say thank you for what you've been writing here. This is one of the most thorough and well-written blogs I've come across, period.

Monster 62

I don't know why that West Hollywood crowd and other supporters are all pissed off at blacks because they voted 70% in support of proposition 8. The reaction they are having toward blacks, etc. is "exactly" why they voted the way they did.

Everyone knows those Gays up in Weho are some of the most "racist" group of people unless it benefits "them". Here's some advice West Hollywood Group or Gay's. How about trying to treat people the way you want to be treated.

If you all want Prop 8 passed one day and get the support -- how about getting the support of these other "groups" and help them understand why they should support your cause.

Calling people names and using the "slave derogatory word" won't get you anywhere. If anything it will make people vote against you. Final word, take "no one's vote" for granite.

Hatred and ignorance has no place in America anymore! If you want "America" to change -- you have to start in your own house first.

Annoyed

My mom always told me a leopard does not change his spots. I say this because racists will consistently single out the black minority as their scapegoats and feel justification even in ignorance. Nobody knows the truth about which group voted for or against this proposition. Won’t somebody take time and follow the money!!! That will tell you who is to blame for this failed prop. So, instead of making ignorant accusations, you racists will have some element of fact to launch your hate campaign!!

Keith in Seoul

Being a gay black American, I am not surprised by the reaction of some white gays and lesbians because of this defeat. The vile and hateful stuff said by some nitwits prove the underlying racism held by many in the gay community. But they grew up with these attitudes. They had a white identity before they had a homosexual one. I am just waiting for these "enlightened" white gays and lesbians turn on Pres. Obama when he does a "Clintonian" move in anticipation of 2012. Re-election does a crazy thing even for the ones perceived as being on the side of gays. (Read: DOMA and Bill Clinton.)

Derek Stewart

I am not surprised by this behavior at all. On my blog as President-elect Obama's campaign progressed some of the most hate filled and racist comments directed at me came from white gay men. We are fond of saying that the most segregated time in American life is Sunday morning. Lets add Friday and Saturday night to that adage, because not only do we not worship together, we also do not socialize or party together in any meaningful way.

Glen Chapman

Does anybody still believe that blacks are racist?What nonsense,Blacks are kind,considerate and hard working people.So get a grip,you lazy white boys.

Cody Kinsey

Uh, some of those supposedly "racist" comments pointed out in this article were not racist at all. There is nothing wrong with pointing out to bigoted black people that they voted for the exact same type of discrimination they used to be subjected to.

Of course it's never okay to use the "n" word or to suggest that black people are one monolithic group. You shouldn't make general statements.

But!! Having said that, it is fine to talk about the HUGE problem of homophobia within the black community. Black bigots should realize that many of their fellow black people are GAY. This isn't like blacks having problems with Hispanics or Jews, because black homophobia mostly hurts their own black community.

Get a grip, people. If we just take the politically correct route of only protesting white Christians and Mormons, nothing will ever change. It's time we start treating black people the exact same way we treat every other group and hold them up to the same effing standards.

Jamal

I live in Georgia and we don't have racial attacks. I know a lot of you south haters won't believe me but it's true.

Maybe 50 years ago it was bad here. I don't know because my family didn't move here until the 1960s and I wasn't even born yet.

I spent a summer in LA in 2004 and I had more racist encounters there in 4 months than I had in 22 years in Atlanta.

It's not easy to hate at first but once you start down that road it gets easier and easier to hate. You may feel that your hate is righteous but every hater in history has been certain that their hate is righteous. It's never righteous to hate. Hating only perpetuates a cycle of hatred and that can only lead to one thing, death and destruction.

Unite and change minds.

Erich Riesenberg

I am so confused about the black - gay controversy. It is a simple fact 70% of blacks voting on Prop 8 voted against gay marriage. Does it make me racist for pointing it out? Does it make me a bad person for stating I am sad minorities don't support each other?

I do not think it is relevant to say that white Republicans hate gays more than blacks. I feel no shame at stating white Republicans generally dislike gays.

The people hurt most by black dislike of gays are black gays.

I don't know if the number of apathetic black folk brought out to vote for Obama pushed the Yes on 8 vote over the edge. Don't know and don't care.

What I do know is this issue has shown us all we should take care of ourselves. I am tired of white guilt and I am tired of dealing with the problems of others. It is time for people to take care of themselves, and not feel guilty for doing so.

That being said, I donate thousands to a gay shelter and not a dime to No On 8. It is shameful to me that gay leadership works so little on issues affecting poor gays. But I still can't imagine voting against a person's right to be married, or feeling bad for saying people who do so are mean and petty.

Hateful Gay Nazis

I think the GayKK have finally settled on Mormons and Evangelicals as acceptable scapegoats--it's fashionable to bash them, and they belong to the other political party.

/sarcasm

Who the HELL are you people kidding? You've proven yourselves to be the least tolerant, most hateful, most BIGOTED subgroup of any of the others that you claim persecute you.

According to the majority of Californians, sexual deviance ought not be mainstreamed.

GOOD FOR THEM.

QUIT PICKING ON MORMONS, YOU FUCKING COWARDS. WHO'S NEXT--THE AMISH? ALL OF YOU KNOW BETTER THAN TO PROTEST IN FRONT OF CHURCHES IN SOUTH CENTRAL.

COWARDS!

Sisst

In San Francisco the majority of the Chinese people voted Yes on 8.

Muslims were also told in mosques to vote Yes on 8.

Latinos voted more for Yes on 8.

So why just target black people and Mormons?

The comments to this entry are closed.

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