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07 November 2008

Comments

Carlos

very easy to point the finger and blame black folks. the media pushed this and large gay blogs pushed it even before the vote

O Town

If anything the passge of Prop 8 should be a wakeup call to our community. We need to come out and be OUT AND PROUD. We need to let our neighbor see us, our families, our friends and neighbors. Thi9s DL bull is just that.....DL bull you know what. If you are not out to friends or famlily you cant complain about people taking your rights away. If you are afraid to be called a faggot don't be upset if you are called a nig.

jbm

The facts are:

A majority of Whites, 51%, voted against the proposition;

A majority of Asians, 51%, voted against the proposition;

A majority of Hispanics, 53%, voted for the proposition; and

An overwhelming majority of blacks, 70%, voted for the propositions.

How is the passage of the proposition not due to the Black and Hispanic communities, regardless of their percentages of the population, when the other communities voted it down? (I know, black aren't suppose to say things like this out loud.)

The arguments put forth by those defending the black community seems to be that it is the fault of the other communities because they didn't vote against the measure in numbers large enough to offset the overwhelming Black support for the proposition. Moreover, that we should not be assigning blame anyway.

Please, that Blacks having voted 70% for the proposition bear a much greater responsibility than any other racial group for the passage of this proposition is obvious to the most casual observer; we are fooling no one by arguing otherwise. Furthermore, to obtain future success, an honest assessment of the current situation is necessary.

West Side

Yeah I would love to see them come down to Compton and start throwing the n bomb.

kevjack

jbm:

It's a simple matter of math. There are about 10 million voters in the CA election. Of those, about 6% are black. That is 600,000 votes. As we know, 30% of the black vote was against Prop 8, meaning roughly 420,000 blacks voted for it (if those numbers can be believed-- see below). The proposition passed by more than 420,000 votes. This means that even if EVERY SINGLE black person voted no on Prop 8 it still would have passed.

Another thorny issue for you is the fact that the 70/30 number comes from one exit poll of fewer than 250 black voters. Every other exit poll gives numbers far less than the 70/30.

Also, jbm, you neglect the fact that black people vote for the most pro-gay elected officials. This is an established fact.

I refuse to let one exit poll, that is not confirmed by any other evidence beyond people's stereotypes, to be used by those who would like to demonize and marginalize black people. There is simply no other evidence to support such a margin, and the other exit polls contradict it. You ought to think deeply before you swallow whole the disputed arguments based on poor evidence, which some white and black gays have used as evidence in their charges agains black people.

huh

thanks for posting this sobering heads up--I'm not surprised, frankly. As a gay person of color you are subjected to an inverted double standard.

And I know more racist [white] gay men than decent ones. Sad, but true.

actsoffaithblog

Hi All, I had to stop by cuz this is a MESS. I live in the Gay Mecca (SF) and saw ZERO outreach from No on 8. I also saw a Yes on 8 negative ad every 10 minutes for at least 3 weeks straight during daytime tv. The ad was very good at instilling a knee jerk fear reaction w/o being blatant. It's how the Rethugs could trick some women with Sarah Palin pimping out her special needs kid and pulling them in. Anyway I wrote a post On Magic Negros and Why No on 8 Failed. I'd love some feedback http://tinyurl.com/6nprku

blkbandit

sorry rowan im not buying the health care adoption thing even though you make a valid point. in my opinion you can always pay for insurance yourself and adopt your own child. let straight people live straight lives and stop trying to emulate them.

my attitude might not be popular with gay folks but im tired of shiftless useless queens trying to ride the next dudes success. alot of gay men lack motivation and skils to take care of themselves. i think they need to really step it up and stop thinking marriage will save the day.

jmb

kevjack,

Your reply is based on an erroneous assumption. Several independent news sources have reported that blacks accounted for 10% of the California electorate, not merely 6% as you claim. Thus, if 10 million votes were cast then blacks accounted for 700,000 yes votes for proposition 8, far more than its margin of passage.

Several independent news sources have also reported that 70% of blacks supported prop 8.

Finally, I don't see the relevance nor the evidence that blacks vote for the most pro-gay elected officials. Even if this is so, there could be a myriad of reasons, other than the candidates pro-gay stance, as to why blacks voted for them.

Grant

Okay so many thoughts.
The first thing to say is that obviously the people who would say N-bomb at a protest like this ... they are probably in the the minority. But their is a racist undercurrent through all of this. Why do so many gays harp on that 70 percnet figure, there were other groups that voted much higher.

Someone else mentioned that blacks are always scapegoated for things like this. YES WE ARE. It is basic like 101 for many White people to blame Black people for their problems./ They are programmed to do this. Ihope and pray this election will change things. Unfortunately this makes it worst so many White gay people assumed blacks would suuport them.

Eddy

JMB, you are wrong. There is plenty of evidence to suggest many black politicians are extremely gay friendly. Look at the Congressional Score Cards of the Congressional Black Caucus. The Human Rights Campaign gives most scores in the 90s. And all of the leading black politicians in California including assembly speaker, Oakland mayor and others OPPOSED this proposition.

And the nation has only two black governors, Deval Patrick and NY's David Patterson. They are most gay friendly governors in nation.

You really need to read this blog more my friend, all this information has been posted and linked her many times.

Carlos

Huh said, "And I know more racist [white] gay men than decent ones. Sad, but true."

Sad but truer words have never been spoken.

farris

We need to build unity in our own community, which I've come to believe over the years is really not much of a "community" at all, before we look to place blame on others. Not that there isn't enough blame to go around. But until we speak loud and clearly with one united voice, we'll never be able to convince the American public.

Amistad

We ran a bad campaign. We took a lot for granted. We do not have all the support we need from our brothers and sisters in the Gay community. A lot of gay support was really lukewarm. When waging a cultural war against religious fanatics you must be as organized and as determined as they are. We obviously were not. Not enough alliances were built. There's a lot of work to do, but perhaps we should remove the log from our own eye before we try to cast out the mote from our brother's eye?

Another thing to consider is that no minority group has depended on obtaining their rights directly by the ballot box. If the Civil Rights Laws were put on State ballots in the '60's, African-Americans would still be separate but equal. We are being failed by our Gay leadership. We must get our house in order if our rights are to be secured. Our rights will only be secured through Congress and the Court, not by State initiatives.

Steve Rivera

I honestly don't think America feels like America unless it is oppressing some minority group. The mere thought of putting civil rights of a minority group to a vote by the majority is disgusting.

William Crowe

I am a white gay guy, but I really agree with you. If there is any finger pointing, it should be at the religious right and at the feebleness of gay activism.

And yes, there is marginalization of minorities within the gay community, and it has to stop. We have to realize that we’re all in this together — we need to see ourselves as brothers in sisters in victimhood.

This isn’t completely related, but there is a lot of unspoken racism among gays, particularly sexual racism. There’s so much objectification of people of various races based on stereotypes. I’ve long been of the view that “rice queens,” “jungle fever,” “potato queens” and so forth are based on thinly veiled racist attitudes. It’s one thing to like a guy who happens to be white, black, Asian, Latino or whatever. It’s another thing to like him because that’s what he is and because you have expectations that he will be and act a certain way on account of his race or ethnicity.

And then there are guys who won’t date anyone of a particular race, like whites who say they’re “not really into black guys,” “sticky rice” and so forth.

Seth

We’ve wasted enough time, money and tears trying to be just like them! We’re not, we’re better than that. I don’t want TOLERENCE! WE should demand the respect that the Constitution entitles us to.While we’re not like everyone else, we damn well better be treated like everyone else!

Redondo Beach

I will admit, it is somehow more hurtful to me when a black man or woman votes to discriminate against me, when they know how much intense pain bigotry inflicts on a person. They are not ignorant in that respect, yet 70% of the African Americans in California knowingly voted to inflict this pain on Gay Americans. It is shameful and unforgivible. Martin Luther King Jr., Corretta Scott King, and Bayard Rustin all had a bitter sweet day. How sad that this day that should have made them so proud would also have made them so ashamed. I do agree, however, that we, the glbt community, are also to blame. There are still far too many of us living in the closets all across America. People don’t know us. We make it easy for them to remain detached and ignorant. I am sorry to say this, but if we are not willing to live out…shout out…start a nationwide uprising, so that the media and the people of America can no longer ignore us and continue to remain detached from any personal responsibility for our pain…then maybe we don’t deserve our civil liberties.

Devontae

We need an “MLK” in the gay movement that can organize this country’s gay rights supporters to claim our freedom once and for all. If we are not willing to step up in this way and make the ultimate sacrifice, we will lose this fight.

kevjack

jmb,

I hate to break it to you but you are talking to a trained demographer-- this is why you should be very careful about what you say. Everything in your most recent post is incorrect. Let's go to school, shall we?

1) Blacks are no more than 8% of the CA population. Factoring in the age structure of the black population, migration patterns, the incarceration rate and parolees, it is a statistical impossibility that blacks are 10% of the voting population in CA. It simply cannot be possible. While we never know the real number of voters of any race (because registration does not require racial identification) the best we can do is estimate based on what we know about the population overall. The estimates you speak of lack any grounding in basic statistics or demography.

2) You note that "Several independent news sources have also reported that 70% of blacks supported prop 8." That is true. You fail to note that all of those sources were citing exactly one exit poll-- every single news story has been in reference to one exit poll of exactly 224 black voters.

There are several problems with the poll:

a) The sample size is too small to draw any inferences for the whole black population. You simplay cannot extrapolate from 224 people to the more than 400,000 (and you say 1,000,000) black people that voted. Indeed, if your argument about the number of black voters is correct, this exit poll is even *worse* than we think it is.

b) The poll could not even report the numbers of black men supporting prop 8 because its own sample was too small. This tells me right there that the poll has problems.

c) Polls taken before election day showed that 45% of blacks (as compared to, say, 47% of whites) were going to vote for Prop 8. (go to http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=1c4ececc-7c3c-490c-8f35-13341be85e1e to see the results). So the 224 people seem very much like an outlier.

As I said earlier, you believe this 70/30 poll because it confirms your stereotypes of black people. Nothing more, nothing less.

GWM

We lost California because of two massive groups, Blacks and Mormons. I would have thought that Latinos, especially coming from societies with machismo and Catholicism built into them, would have voted been worse. However it was n*ggers, yes that’s right I said it, n*ggers who voted for Obama on one hand and then on the same godd*mned ballot voted to erase a fundamental human right for an entire class of citizens. The day every black person in America is singing “free at last”, is the very same day that millions of ignorant homophobic Obama voting n*ggers vote to keep gays as third class citizens. Martin Luther King and Baynard Rustin would be so proud.


I am happy I didn’t vote for Obama, I knew more people voting FOR Obama because he was black, then voting against him for that reason. Yet Obama’s black voters are no less bigoted, no less backward, no less pieces of human fecal matter than any right-wing homophobic Republican.


Go ahead and ban me again Rod but I am speaking the truth as I see it.

jj

GWM, did you vote for McCain and how is that an improvement?

Rod Mc

KEVJACK I've been reading a little more about statistical breakdown on the exit polls and you make some excellent points.

Oh and welcome to the blog, glad you're around.

GWM You could have made your baseless point without the racist language. And yes, you're banned for good this time.

Eddy Tolbert

I have vowed not to visit any state or country that goes out of its way to ban same-sex marriage. I will not support its economy while my marriage–conducted in Vancouver, BC–is not recognized as legitimate. Sadly, California has joined the ranks of my ban on hetero-only marriage.

Byron

Sorry Rod for I am another gay white man who regularly reads your blog but respectfully disagree.

Obama is a joke, he exploited the homophobia within the Black community with his "Faith Tours" to help garner votes. Obama's old friendships with anti-gay bigots like Donnie McClurkin should have taught the gay community a lesson, but most of us put blinders on when it came to Obama and his pretty words. And many gays and lesbians worked hard to elect the first African American president, only to have African Americans betray us by voting against our equality in droves.

We deserve better.

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