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06 April 2009


Bryan Summers

Here we go again...
These so called black "leaders" are the worse headline seeking homophobes.


I am so ecstatic that gay marriage is coming to the midwest. I live in Chicago and Iowa is just a short drive away. This black pastor is typical of the old guard and the old school of church based black leadership. They need to get the memo this is 2009.

Former COGIC

"The Rev. Keith Ratliff Sr., pastor of the Maple Street Missionary Baptist Church in Des Moines, received "a standing ovation Sunday as he denounced the court's decision"

The Missionary Baptist Chuch is extremely popular with black folks and one of the most antigay churches. But you can bet the church choirs and musicians are full of homos. The MB Church is well known for its choirs and there are many, many gay men in the national choir competitions.


I think that our joy for this ruling should be tempered by the fact that although it is a long process, it is very likely that Iowa will try to amend its state constitution to outlaw gay marriage. In this way, the decision is only the first step in a long process. But while it remains on the books I believe that gays and lesbians in the Midwest should take advantage of it and use it as an opportunity to highlight the posititve things that gay marriage brings about.


As happy overjoyed as I am by this historic ruling, it is also sad to see the very few black folks in this state reacting negatively. This was just the opposite case in Massachusetts and more recently New Hampshire where the relatively small black population were mostly pro marriage.


And yet, 75% his church has women who have kids and have never been married, talk about a two bit hypocrite, and, another reason to keep church and state separate. And, other than the so called media, who appoints these 'leaders?' It seems as though the only qualification is to be loud, overbearing, uneducated and uncouth.


First and foremost, I again celebrate the decision by the Iowa Supreme Court ruling that the gay marriage ban was unconstitutional. Furthermore, they went on to say that banning gay marriage was a violation of human rights.

However, this mess with religion is intolerable. I have said before on another comment section that I have a deep disdain for religion. You see, I refer to religion and not God, because they are separate issues. I see God as fully loving and accepting with no exceptions. Religion, on the other hand, is created by human minds with the intention to control what you do, when you do it, and how you do it. Religion is simply control over every facet of your life.

Religion doesn't require its followers to think, question, or challenge what is forced down their throats. Tell people that women must be subservient to their man, and people follow. Tell people that women can't be leaders of their churches, mosques, and synagogues, and people follow. Tell people that a certain segment of the population are hellbound and deserve to be persecuted, and people follow. Not once are followers challenged to search deep within themselves and draw their own conclusions, because doing so would risk followers becoming leaders of their own destinies.

As for the gay community, especially of the Black variety, I have found it quite difficult to understand why they would be members of churches that speaks against their own interests. I find it condescending for those churches to say we accept homosexuals, but we hate homosexuality and you must repent. You know you can't change who you are, so why put up with that crap? Or you have a minister who speaks against homosexuality, yet you know that he practices his homosexuality on a regular basis even with you. Those gays who attend these churches should leave them immediately. I don't even want to hear the excuses for not doing so. I don't compromise the very essence of who I am and neither should you.

In the end, I only care about what these churches think in terms of what type of roadblocks they place in my path that keeps me from living my life fully and freely, and what must I do to thwart them. I know some people will flame me for what I have said. So be it. I don't apologize for what I truly believe, and I will not back down. Life is too short for me to tip-toe around the fringes of church acceptability just to be tolerated. Why would any self-respecting LGBT person remain a member of a homophobic church? I have heard many excuses, but not one plausible reason has been uttered.


---> Why would any self-respecting LGBT person remain a member of a homophobic church?

That is an excellent question, Ravenback, and I believe black gay men and lesbians need to seriously ask themselves this question. It is part of an unspoken Don't Ask, Don't Tell tradition in the black church. Black gay men are allowed to participate and be flamboyant but they must not acknowledge what everyone suspects or gossips about. It's like trying to be validated by the black straights as a second class citizen.

Derrick from Philly

We ought to create a fund to pay male or female escorts to have sex with these pastors. Then we'd blackmail the motha' f.... with photos or videos. We'd have to black mail them because if you release the photos to the public --the hypocrites would just go before their congregations crying, "I've sinned but I'm gonna' do right from now on"--yeah, do he'll do right till next Friday night.

Why are the anti-gay preachers always so ugly? Every damn one they put up leading the fight against gays is ugly, even that one in Atlanta with the processed hair--Miss Long.


Grant, I agree with your DADT analogy. That is exactly the policy of these churches.

Derrick, you make a very bold and straightforward statement. It really wouldn't be hard to pull off. I have sexually been with more than I gay preacher in the past. At the time, I didn't know who they actually were, because I don't follow the church scene. They were attractive men who had female church groupies. I know where they hang out and the types of dudes they are into. So, if I were so inclined to, I could actually accomplish that.


Ravensback, don't even get me started on that question.

The sad thing is these anti-gay black churches are laying up with the EXACT same churches that enslaved them at one time and would do so again if given the opportunity.

Well. We need to have more spaces where our brothers and sisters can worship without shame of who they are.

As for these homophobic black churches, you know the saying, you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.


A guy I was recently dating, not anymore, who was black, told me that he thought being gay was a choice. I was quite appalled, we argued about it.

I explained that that mindset is rooted in the fact that you think who or what you are i fundamentally wrong. That thinking his way was endorsing the man above on an unconscious level.

I questioned myself in the capacity that I thought I was being harsh, or uncompromising.

After reading this, I realized that you have to stand up for yourself and know that you love yourself enough to not tolerate bigotry. Whether it is from the guy I was seeing in a self-loathing context, or from pastors.

I'm me and God made me as I was intended to be made. I believe that more than anything else in this life. Thanks for posting this Rod, we have to see this to know, especially in the black GLBT community, that we still have a long road to walk on.

The end result will be worth it though.-QH


Ravenback and Grant...

Perhaps some black men attend these churches because they do not believe everyone should know their business.

Oh and Kevin what type of church do you attend? is your pastor aware of your sexuality?


I'm amazed at how eerily similar the campaigns for public office and how these preachers "stand up" to issues like this. The basic approach is telling people what's wrong in society and who to blame for it.

Single parent homes -- blame the gays! High HIV infection rate -- blame the gays! Having kids out of wedlock -- blame the gays!

Honestly, what did gays do to deserve so much attention, other than getting the person a moment in spot light?

Former COGIC

@ NN:

So very sad to hear you talk like that my brother. That was exactly what I used to think and say as I sat in a black mega church whose pastors gaybashed for headlines and donations. But it is not about everyone knowing "your" business. It's about some preachers making it "their" business telling everyone else what they should do in their private lives. There is a big difference.

And even if you didn't or don't want to come out ... can you find a church that doesn't bash gays? Why donate your time and money to people who do not support your right to exist?


Since the Rev is at odds with the NAACP's stated position, he should either step down as head of the state chapter or be removed by National. Let the NAACP 'put their money where their mouth is' so to speak.


Well said COGIC. Even though I am a tad bit outspoken, I'm a very private person. As you said, being private doesn't mean you have to attend a gay-bashing church. This privacy issue is heard often from people who defend the DL lifestyle. The only thing you get out of trying to keep people from knowing your "business" is a bunch of lying. And what type of life is that?


NN, I haven't been a member of a church since i was a teenager. I have been considering joining a Unitarian churtch, but I have made no final decision on that.

Mel Smith

That pastor sounds like an old ignorant insensitive fool.


I used to have to travel to Des Moines regularly in my old job and I didn't think there were enough black people to make a mega church.I have been over to the Black area of town and it was not that big.

Anyway....My lover grew up in a church where the pastor would bash Gay people every week and he is still carrying the baggage from the hate that he heard in that church. We now attend a church that is not a gay church but a church that does not bash gays or anyone else. He also attends a gay church sometimes.

All that being said, please don't stay in a church where a pastor is crucifying you for being gay. Its not worth it.

Rod Mc


I never said it was a "mega-church" or qualified Ratliff's congregation by its size. However, Ratliff is president of the state chapter of the NAACP, and was quoted all across television and newspapers over the weekend. There is no doubt he is very influential in Iowa. -RM


I am way over this "nobody needs to know my business" BS that folks try to use to justify their support of hateful churches. The last person who did this was Star Jones, and you see what happened to her. We all knew her business!

Let me break this down for you church queens living in denial. They know you're a Queen. Nobody is fooled. Your business is already out there. They are talking about you behind your back. They are snickering about you behind your back. The woman you brought with you didn't fool anyone. Stop. Fooling. Yourself.

I'm tired of you guys. You are true gluttons for punishment. And the fact that you continue to let them berate and abuse you makes us all look sad, self-loathing, and weak. I know this sounds harsh, and I know that even in 2009 it is certainly not safe to be out everywhere. But that you choose to donate your time, talent, and resources to an organization that is hellbent (pun intended) on our destruction is truly sad and pathetic. It is beyond the pale. You support the people who are trying to kill our spirits. It is shameful.

I just had to say it. Cause the truth is the truth and the truth is you need to wake up.


We already know that Iowa has a small black population. That was stated in the article. Just because the black population is tiny does not mean this so called black leader is unimportant, no one listens to him or we should ignore what he says.

Anyway...I'm going to agree with Kevjack, Ravenback and COGIC. The self loathing, black gay men who continue to support these antigay black churches are no better than Jews who collaborated with the Nazis. They are literally helping the black church to keep our community in bondage. Why is it so important for you queens to go to a society church? Or a church with an award winning choir? Go to a church that loves YOU FOR YOU.


amen @ravenback
Everything you just tated in that very articulate and strong comment i strongly believe.

Obviously as a gay black man i am not surprised by this at all. I love being black and slightly dislike some aspects.
Including church.

I recently visited a church on occasion and liked it for a while until i figured out it was just like the rest.

I saw two trannys
A super queen.. Looked like alex from noahs arc
And a bunch of fine gay guys. ( I knew this because I saw them at the bars)

But on one occasion the pastor persuaded the congregation to sign a petition on a proposed law in California in which the use of "mommy and daddy" in public schools
And of course like drones they all signed except for me
And one of the trannies.

I asked my mother later why she signed the petition
And she simply said
" the pastor told me"

alicia banks

thanks rod!

welcome back!

proving yet again that:



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