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08 July 2011

Comments

Former COGIC

Very glad to hear that this man turned himself in and black gays are cooperating with the police. This was just wrong on so many levels, so thankful that young man is alive.

M Mark

"When will Chicago's Black LGBT leaders say ANYTHING about the stabbings.."

WHAT black LGBT leaders? Only a few come to mind. The situation is similar to what we've been discussing (and debating) all week. The city is segregated and people often don't communicate well and speak time in other area.

There are some black lesbian and gay leaders on the south side and there are some on the north side. The north siders may have more influence but lack street cred; the south siders may have some street cred but lack political influence.

I haven't seen any black LGBTs in front on this. But that's to be expected in almost any issue concerning black LGBTs ...few want to come out and be visible, and we often resent those who are. Good question, tho, no easy answers.

Account Deleted

It is really disheartening that folks from their respective communities who are not LGBT can't say anything about this either. I'm sorry, but aren't these boys also BLACK/POC. Aren't folks forever pointing out the disparities of inner city youth face....But continue to exclude those who are LGBT face twice, hell triple, the marginalization. Why can't STRAIGHT folks do the same and show concern for us.

Are Latino and Black LGBTs, specifically gay men, REALLY that invisible. Do we REALLY don't want to be seen?

Jim

“Question: When will Chicago's Black LGBT leaders say ANYTHING about the stabbings, the street violence or the situation in Boystown?”

Well, he may be too young or too unknown to be considered a black gay leader, but both TV videos posted yesterday—the news report on the incident itself and the one about the community meeting—featured a fellow named Joshua McCool from “Gender Just.” Unfortunately, the first video cut him off in mid-thought, but he sure wasn’t hiding from anybody.

kevjack

I think Rod's question hit the nail on the head. We're quick to talk about racial tension, discrimination, and everything else but we're mute when it comes to incidents such as this. We need somebody in Chicago to speak up about this, and the underlying problem of youth violence in Chicago (which, I note, few black leaders wanted to deal with). Something is going on with young people in general in the Chicago area, and it has been going on for some time.

The real problem is this-- three stabbings in Boystown in three weeks involving groups of young POC does not fit nicely into the "white gay community isn't welcoming" narrative. If there were three stabbings in any of our neighborhoods we would be concerned, so the reaction of the residents does not fit nicely into the "white gays are big-time racist" narrative, either. We need a new framework. I suggest the "we need to expect our young people to act as if they have some damn sense" framework where we expect and demand that our young people act appropriately, period.

I'm tired of making excuses for these kids-- black people have been poor and from broken homes in violent communities for generations, so I'm not reading from that script anymore. We've never had adequate services for our young people, especially our gay young people, so I'm not reading that script anymore, either. The real question is why this type of violence is becoming common in the black gay community and what we can do about it.

MRCHOCOLATE615

And thank you Jim.....Just keep in mind the white based media isn't concerned with total facts. Just SENSATIONALISM! They cut Joshua McCool off once he said "We don't want this to be about PROFILING" The camera cut immediately! So there are Black LGBT leaders speaking out maybe the media just doesn't want to speak to them. Also from what I saw on WLS and WGN online news. They never mentioned it was Black LGBT young folks they called them groups of Blacks! However, I'm glad this dude is doing the right thing!

Chitown Kev

“Question: When will Chicago's Black LGBT leaders say ANYTHING about the stabbings, the street violence or the situation in Boystown?”

I'm glad that a black LGBT tipped off the police. I know how we can get about being "stool pigeons" especially when the cops are involved.

@Mr Chocolate615

Yeah, but the Chicago media has attempted to be very careful in NOT mentioned race since those robberies on the Gold Coast started.

Of course, since this stabbing happened at a Black Pride event, you can't help byut mention race but generally...the Sun-Times and the Tribune have been silent on race with this and the Gold Coast story (I would love to see Mary Mitchell do something on this)

Chitown Kev

oops!

"NOT mentioned" s/b "NOT mentioning"

Rod Mc

Jim: I mentioned Gender Just (and have several times previously) and posted the videos. I'm aware one of their youth activists spoke out.

That doesn't change the fact that the leadership that is usually on camera, quoted, or that receives substantial funding have been missing in action. FWIW, this has become an all-too familiar pattern across the country.

Kevjack makes some very good points. The Black and Black LGBT communities are very good about framing binary issues on racism, harassment and discrimination, but are not very good in addressing Black on Black violence (or HIV), which is a much more pressing issue in the community.

Chitown Kev

@kevjack

that's what the spaghetti I've been throwing on the wall looks like. Thank you.

And from what I've seen as recently as last night, some white LGBT's are willing to help even if it's just talking with "the children" as I did last night (and I had been doing all along).

There was just a story in one of the free weeklies here, New City, about a photoographer that did some work with the ballroom queens here in Chicago.

One of the thing that he pointed out was that Chicago's ballroom scene does tend to be more violent that ballroom scenes in other cities. The author even hinted that portions of the ballroom scenes have gang affiliations.

Oh, here it is, I found it...

"There are many differences between Chicago’s ball culture and New York’s, says Diederich. Where NYC balls take place on stages in front of velvet curtains, Chicago’s are more informal, sited in church basements and backyards, and sometimes there’s a crossover with gangs, and violence can be a reality, even at a party. There are dance themes and extravagant fashions, and the competition categories can be decades old, such as Butch Queen Realness, which is passing like a straight thug. Unlike “Paris Is Burning,” Diederich’s still photographs are motionless and silent. It’s not clear what type of music they’re dancing to or even what kind of dance is being performed. Instead, they focus more on the visual codes and handmade glamour of the local ballroom scene. Diederich calls them aesthetes, and their beautiful ambiguities are heightened and tensions stripped away when frozen in a photo."

http://art.newcity.com/2011/06/20/portrait-of-the-artist-todd-diederich/

dean

Well being a thug is glamorised what did you all expect. It will be drive bys next

ThatREALtea

Is HAYES one of the kids?

dean

ThatREALtea let me guess you want that thug

Greg G in River North

Kev: "that's what the spaghetti I've been throwing on the wall looks like."

Yes, that's exactly what you've been doing. Throwing spaghetti against the wall, hoping something would stick, "playing devil's advocate". And arguing random points and inside baseball anecdotes that have nothing to do with the situation, from drug dealing to the imaginary racial harmony in your neighborhood to the Gold Coast robberies.

And along the way you insulted many people with your tone and remarks, assumed everyone at Rod 2.0 is not educated and lives in a ghetto (I guess that's why there are ads for Blackberry and Denmark tourism,) suggested only you understand mainstream gay culture, and disparaged the young black gay kids on Halsted. And continue to talk about yourself.

Oh and YOU and "some white LGBTs" are "talking to the kids" now? How every white of you. You were "terrified and scared" of them the other day. What are YOU talking to them about, besides being "ghetto and hoodrat"? Because in another post you said you had words with some young queens on the street.

Interesting that it takes an issue such as this stabbing to compel you to take an anthropological expedition to "talk" to kids whom you admit resembled you in your Pier Kid youth.

Chitown Kev

GregG, what are you smoking?

"you insulted many people with your tone and remarks, assumed everyone at Rod 2.0 is not educated and lives in a ghetto..."

sweetie, you can say that my analysis is correct or incorrect but I never said noer do I think any such thing; after all, I am aware of some of the occupations of the posters here, including several that work in academia.

If you disagree with me, fine, I can live with that but don't say anything that I neither implied nor inferred.

Truth be told, I had been talking to them all along...just not in those big groupings. As it turns out one of "the children" is the lesbian daughter of an acquaitance of mine.

I never said that I was terrified or scared but yeah, I could imagine why others would be.

"Interesting that it takes an issue such as this stabbing to compel you to take an anthropological expedition to "talk" to kids whom you admit resembled you in your Pier Kid youth."

Do you want me to be completely honest about this...

Many of the Pier Youth back in the day did not like me for that very reason; they didn't think that I belonged with them.

Many of "the children" back in the day assumed that I was a rich, educated kid who was out slumming with them and that I could have gone home at anytime that I wanted.

You know what? To a large extent they were correct.

My problem then was I didn't fit in anywhere, not in the family, not with my peers in college, nowhere.

Yes, "the children" back in the day kept me at arms length for the very reasons that both of us cite.

But they still made sure that no harm came to me out on the streets.

And they did teach me a few necessary "skills" like shopping for five finger discounts and things of that nature.

and kevjack is right, the black gay youth on Halsted are, to an extent, disparaging themselves by their actions. Same thing that the Covenant House counselors would tell us.

Now would you go back to looking up my comments at JMG please (Seriously, I never thought that I all that interesting).

King Drive

GOOGLE "ChiTown Kev SEXUAL RACISM" You'll find numerous comments at Towleroad, Queerty, Bilerico and JMG. Lots of complaints from Kev about the "sexual racism" practiced by white gay men.

What is "sexual racism" Kev? And why are you so passionate in calling it out?

Greg G in River North

Kev: I'll quote you verbatim of th statements you claim you didn't make and will leave it at that.

http://is.gd/jYBkrM

"8-10 packs of 15-20 black queens is just a hot mess. And...yes, all those packs of hoodrat queens DOES look scary."

"hell, I got into 2 different bars in the area without having to show even one form of ID."

"Black queens" "Hoodrat queens" "Scary" A mess child, a mess.

Of course you have "been talking" to the "hoodrat" "black queens all along", pumpkin. Of course you have.

And how special that Little Jim's allows you inside without being carded. Even though I am so sure you look every bit of your age, dear.

Chitown Kev

Uh, "it DOES look scary does not translate into me being the one that's scared.

and yeah, hoodrat queens...back in the day, Icalled the crew (mostly House of Pandavas) that I ran with hoodlum queens and so did a lot of other people.

Include me with the hoodlum queens. In anthropology they call it "participant observation" (and yes, I was one class short of minor in the subject)


But...why the personal insults, vendetta, and shade. I didn't pee in your Cheerios or sleep with you last night.

And...I never said that I went to Little Jim's...at least not on this blog or in these posts. and what does that statement about the bars have to do with with your post in THIS paerticular thread?

Now who's throwing spaghetti?

But you know what?

I've admitted that I was in error and a bit out of bounds what you do with it is your problem, not mine.

Liteboywonder

OMG..... This is so unreal.... I'm speechless.....

Bubbalicious

@Greg G in River North: Preach, brother! Preach! You read all of Chitown Kev's mail, and now he is on the defensive. Oh well. Two things bother me most about Chitown Kev: 1) If that pack of black queens were white, he and every other loser on Halsted Street would have to be hospitalized for the damage caused to their necks by leering and cooning over the young white hotties GRACING Boystown with their fabulous presence. 2) That group of black queens doesn't look scary to Chitown Kev; they simply look BLACK. Chitown Kev's self-hatred abhors their presence for fear that the white bois on Halsted dare equate them to his DIFFERENT AND TOTALLY ACCEPTABLE version of black. Chitown Kev is pathetic. But, he is also afflicted with mental issues so...

Bubbalicious

@King Drive: I'll tell you why Chitown Kev speaks out against sexual racism...it directly affects his desires to be with white/latin men. He is oppressed and unhappy. He is undersireable by the men of Boystown, and it affects his everything.

I am so disgusted by "black" men like Chitown Kev who are begging whites to appreciate them. They declare in their A4A profiles that "race isn't an issue." But, oh yes it is! These "black" men have race issues; they want the white race. How can "blacks" disapprove of white/latin men having a preference for non-blacks when they share the same preference despite their blackness?

Here is another question: Why do so many black gay academics at colleges/universities who lead African-American Diaspora Programs only date white? They preach black power and black unity all day long, and then go home to white lovers!!! Argh, my head is spinning. If this opens up a can of worms, my apologies. Even Rustin and Baldwin did this. What gives???

Chitown Kev

LOL at all the speculation here about me. It's like, don't you queens have anything better to do?

"They declare in their A4A profiles that "race isn't an issue."

I have never put up a profile on Manhunt or anywhere else, so I haven't the slightest idea what this speculation is for.

And skin color really is a non-issue for me (I've dated and been with all types). Body type, however, is another story.

I just love it, though, when black people want to tell other how to be black.

Oh, and "race" is a totally stupid social construct ceated by that same white man. I figured out a long time ago that the more I play into and am invested in that system...and in that criteria for...whatever...the more I am really playing the white man's game.

Obviously, "race" is not a suffcient criteria in determining anything, really. (Nor is sexuality, for that matter).

anyway, I dont even know what all of this has to do with the subject matter of the thread.

and it's not as if black people haven't ostracized me before...it's been happening since I was 4 or 5 years old. I don't exist to please anyone's notion of being black. And that includes white men and their Mandingo fantasies (and, in any case, I am very far from that)

you bitches really need to get a life.

Hut a question...do y'all black queens resent ANY interracial dating or someone who exclusively dates someone with...a certain skin color?

Derrick from Philly

"Is HAYES one of the kids?"

I know exactly what you mean, ThatREALtea. I rarely see a Gay guy that looks that ugly. Then, again, I haven't been out in a while.

ChitownKev

LOL

"I am so disgusted by "black" men like Chitown Kev who are begging whites to appreciate them."

That's so why I went to Florida
A & M University when I graduating from high school.

No, in fact it was for the exact opposite reason.

Chitown Kev

"...DIFFERENT AND TOTALLY ACCEPTABLE version of black."

Acceptable to whom? Not black folks (or most black folks, anyway) and not to most white folks or even white gay men, lol.

Don't try putting me in a box...it won't work.

"Even Rustin and Baldwin did this. What gives???"

The love of Baldwin's life was white, yes but do read "No Name In the Street" esp. what Baldwin writes about Tony Maynard. Or...read in between the lines. Always sounded to me as if Maynard was more than a bodyguard.

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